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Re: XFree86 4.0.1 and app-defaults

On Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 10:00:04AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 28, 2000 at 11:49:27AM +0200, Sven LUTHER wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 27, 2000 at 10:50:49AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> > Well if i install the 3.3.6 X server, it will read its configuration file from
> > /etc/X11/XF86Config, and the 4.0.1 X server will read his from the exact same
> > location. And The XF86Config format is _NOT_ the same for both versions. Thus
> > you run into problems if you want ot have XF4.0.1 and XF3.3.6 installed in the
> > same time.
> > 
> > ... huh, forgot, you don't plan to allow this kind of things, isn't it ?
> You *still* quite obviously have not read the manpage for the 4.x version
> of XF86Config.  Since you have decided to accuse me of incompetence, I'll
> just leave you in ignorance on this point.

Ok, did read the man page now, ...

You were right,

Why don't you just tell that XF4 will recognize
etc/X11/XF86Config-4 before etc/X11/XF86Config ? it would have informed me of
my error in far less words.

> > Ok, but you will be packaging the X server + the X libraries + all the
> > standard X apps that come with it (well twm, xterm and such). I see i need to
> > be much more precise with my postings to you, so therfor i will name this
> > whole stuff the "X stuff", so there is no confusion.
> How about learning to distinguish between servers and clients?

Because you maintain a package that is composed of the server, some clients
and the lib, and all get installed at the same time upstream ?

> > I do driver work, no need to be very much aware of lot of stuff which you have
> > a much better grasp of,
> On the contrary, I think you do need to get a handle on how the rest of the
> X Window System works, at least in broad principles.  Not knowing these
> things will impede your communication with other XFree86 developers.


I do know how the Xfree system works, and know the difference between the
client and the server and the lib, maybe i am not as familiar as yourself with
all the small details. 

That said, is it true that for the work i do, it is more important to knew the
graphics ship registers and how a graphic chip works than the much more high
level stuff.

That said, it is strange to me that you accuse me of acuusing you of being
incompetent, while you are accusing me of the exact same thing. 

But then i know that since my attempt to get a working xfree package for ppc
in january 99, you don't like me ...

> > That said, we are speaking about X apps, well at least some of them are
> > maintained by you (x11/xterm and co). Or do you plan to keep the symlink magic
> > in place forever ?
> Upstream ships a symlink.  Ultimately I'd like to see us do so as well.

Ok, but upstream needs to handle more legacy stuff than we, don't they ?

Anyway, lets just do it.

> > Now imagine i have the 3.3.6 server installed (which don't know about the new
> > location of the app-default stuff you spoke about in your mail) and install
> > apps that where compiled for the new 4.0.1 scheme of things. What will happen
> > if your 4.0.1 xterm installs its app-default files in the /etc location and
> > while the 3.3.6 xfree86-common didn't create the symlink ?
> Apparently you didn't read my initial mail in this thread, or you have just
> as much trouble grasping Debian package dependencies as you do the
> distinction between X servers and X clients.  I guess these are not things
> you feel you need to know --- maybe you should just just start calling them
> "Debian stuff"?
> X clients compiled against the 4.x libraries will depend on xlib6g 4.x.
> xlib6g 4.x will depend on xfree86-common 4.x.  Therefore, X clients
> compiled against the 4.x libraries will not be present on systems with
> xfree86-common 3.3.6.

Sure, that's what i forgot.

> > And i have been running XF4 since a long time already (well since before
> > it was called 3.9.x). I can tell you what has gone bad in any terms you
> > will need. But then if you are not interrested, just do the work
> > yourself, i will wait for the packages to be released, but then don't
> > complain you have no time to do the work, if you don't accept help from
> > people
> Incoherent "help" from you is less valuable than knowledgeable, or simply
> informative help from others.  Just to name names, Joey Hess, Brendan
> O'Dea, and Marcelo Magallon all provided quite helpful feedback on my
> preliminary 4.0.1 .debs.  In large portion, they simply provided
> typescripts of their installation commands and the output they generated.
> (Joey Hess gets the purple heard for grepping the sources to find out what
> Xt function reads app-defaults, though.  But as it turns out, I have to
> edit something in config/cf to do what we want, and not lib/Xt.  Ah, the
> Byzantine joys of X.)

Well, i inform you of what i noticed when i did compile XF4 from upstream
source, but you tell me it is uninterresting. 

And you don't asked me to test your XF4 debian packages, you don't want to,
you don't even informed me that they existed, how can you expect that kind of
report from me ?

That said, you do know that lot of stuff is configured in the config/cf files,
isn't it, are you aware of the _don't install outside of $ProjectRoot_ flag
for example ? 

> If you can learn to communicate your problems better, I will appreciate
> feedback from you.  If not, it will be worthless to me, and you'll only see
> your problems get fixed because other people who had them actually managed
> to tell me what they were.

Ok, i will give more precise in my reports in the future, and i hope that you
will be less agressive, insulting and arrogant in your replies. Not that you
don't know how, as shown in your recent smooth and honeyy report about the
lucidux fonts on the xfree mailing list.

That said, why don't you just ship them in non-free ? I know you don't like
non-free, but that is what non-free is for, and would stop Richard
Wackerbart's argument immediately.



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