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Re: html 4.0 validation for the site.

On Tue, 21 Nov 2000, jrodin@jagor.srce.hr wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 21, 2000 at 11:28:29PM +0200, Tommi Vainikainen wrote:
>> Now Debian front page looks bad[1] with new rounded boxes, because
>> I've told Netscape my preferred background color.
> Can you please elaborate how exactly does the web site look worse
> than before with your setup? I can't see any big difference, except
> for those eight little images used to round the corners.

That was what I meant, those little images.

> (I wonder how do the other web pages look, with color settings
> ignored that way...)

I like very minimal pages, I'm looking for content, not "look".  So,
for me web pages look good when there is as little as possible
needless things.  (Yeah, I know I'm in a minority.)

>> If things such as these would be in CSS file, everything would look
>> good for everybody[2].  CSS gives users more power to decide how
>> things should look like, that's why I like it.
> If we set aside the images problem (non-transparency), you're saying
> that if this layout was made with stylesheets, the browser would let
> you pick how to display which elements and which elements
> characteristics to ignore, in a more fine-grained manner? Sounds
> nice...

I don't really know if it would be more fine-grained, but at least it
would be possible to use your own look instead the one webmaster
provides, and because everything related to look would be separated from
content.  It would really look like people want, not almost[1].

[1] In here I mean for example for me, those box rounding images would
be described in CSS file, and my browser wouldn't show them to me.

I think Debian web pages have very clean design, and that makes them
usually look good even when it doesn't look exactly what was wanted.
Therefore I wouldn't use much CSS, just "additionally".  I mean that
when for example you think it would be nice to have little more space
between two elements, CSS would be optimal solution, even though not
all browsers support that.  For older browser it would look
suboptimal, but usually still very good.  Of course, much testing
should be done with different browsers.

Also, it would like to note that Jacob Nielsen[2] recommends to
support even version 3 browsers until next year and version 4 browsers
until late 2003. (<URL:http://www.useit.com/alertbox/990418.html>)

[2] Jacob Nielsen is well-known web usability guru.

But as a final comment, I think very important decisions as how to use
CSS should be made thinking about users, does it make it easier to use
Debian web pages when we do this or that.  Wrong reason to use CSS
would be for example if we would want exact rendering or some other
really bad things. :-)

Tommi Vainikainen

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