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Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of "erotic" interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children

*TRIGGER WARNING* in case it wasn't painfully obvious for this thread by

On 14/03/14 02:21, Nils Dagsson Moskopp wrote:
> Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@gwolf.org> writes:
>> Jo Shields dijo [Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 10:34:59PM +0000]:
>>> Let's be very, very, very clear then.
>>> This is a game where you play a paedophile. The aim is to rape local
>>> little girls, whilst evading the authorities. Success is rewarded with
>>> graphic scenes of sex with children, failure with being thrown in
>>> prison. The sex content is only optional in the sense that you can out
>>> yourself to the authorities and get thrown in jail rather than continue
>>> with the actual game content. Where "game content" consists of a few
>>> hundred drawn images of graphic sex acts with children. The script
>>> "unrpa.py" can be used to extract all the assets from the .rpa files in
>>> the upstream-distributed game.
>>> We're not talking about some great moral position on artistic integrity
>>> here. There are interesting visual novels made with Ren'Py worth
>>> considering for Debian. But I don't think, on any sane planet, Hero
>>> Paedo Fucks Kids In German is a game we want in the archive.
>> Bufff... If even the game is ¹/₁₀ of what Jo describes here, I'd very
>> very very very very very very much prefer not having it anywhere near
>> the Debian archive. Not only because the plot line is actively against
>> *many* things many of the DDs have been working hard to reduce on the
>> project for a very long time (and by tenthing the game, it'd still
>> include sexism and violence, even if Jo's view was heavily distorted —
>> And I have no indications not to trust this mini-review!)
> I do not know how you can “out yourself to the authorities” in the
> game. Jo, could you explain to me what in-game choices trigger that?

The second dialogue box in the game, with Breite Dorfbewohnerin.


Second option -> game over.

I'm sorry if you feel my lack of command of the German language
disqualifies me to comment on the clever subtext in semen-soaked
preteens. Good news is apparently an English translation is in the
works! Yay!

> For those who have not played the game, please look at any one of these
> videos that show how the game plays before judging its artistic merit:
> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=unteralterbach>

Are we having this discussion? Really? That's a thing we're doing? Fine.

Bernd And The Mystery Of Underageville is a game by, and for, a
German-language 4chan-style image board, Krautchan. The users of that
forum are generically referred to as "Bernds" - it's no accident that
the protagonist's name is Bernd, one of the developers uses Berlin Bernd
as a pseudonym, and that the "dev team" is called BerndSoft.

Speaking of BerndSoft, here's devlogo.png from the game:


The subtitle reads: "BerndSoft is the place where you can enjoy the
beauty of eroge. We made software featuring young and petite lolis. You
will definitely find these excellent games worth to be called true

For those at the back, loli is the general term used for underage girls
in manga.

So what's the content, exactly? Well, I'm no domain expert on this.
Fortunately this is the Internet, and there are plenty of domain experts
on the content to be found.

On "All The Fallen", a web forum which describes itself as "a forum for
lolicon [illustrated little girl porn] and shotacon [illustrated little
boy porn]. It is NOT child friendly and they do allow pedophiles so it
is highly advised you avoid this site at all costs", user "l0licon"
describes the game as:

"You turn Bernd into a pedophile and need to save the world by having
sex with lolis"

He's backed up by user "Kyle8910":

"It's kinda like that, yeah. At first, any loli sex is done by force as
when raped by fairies (Cirno in background), but then it changes where
you are standing up for those lolis who want to have sex. I mean, you
find a pot smoking loli who happily does stuff with you. You earn loli
power from this and it helps fight the demon bitch near the end. Really
tough boss btw."

Elsewhere, on all-knowing 4chan:

"It's the one where Muhammad lets you fuck his child bride."

Which sounds like exactly the kind of thing we desperately want in the
Debian archive, clearly.

Curiously, the quality of the soundtrack doesn't seem to come up much in
the reviews of the game, so much as the quality of the child sex.

> With the exception of violence implied by the various game overs (prison
> rape, being eaten by pigs etc.), the game is not very violent. There is
> only one sex scene in the game where a non-player character is clearly
> not consenting – the rape lands the protagonist immediately in prison.

CHILDREN CAN'T CONSENT. This is a paedophile fantasy, the "she's the one
who seduced *me*!" argument gets trotted out in court time after time.
By definition, the game's dozen child sex scenes are of child abuse
which is legally equivalent to rape in most jurisdictions in the world.
Well, you could argue that the demon child Emily isn't human so isn't
covered by such things, ditto the fairies, I guess. Ten scenes with
twelve girls, then.

>> And yes, even removing many red alerts, this strikes me as something
>> that will very likely be illegal in one or more jurisdictions. We
>> don't want that.
> If Debian does not distribute sex scenes that are illegal in some
> jurisdictions, what would you think might bring legal difficulties?

Splitting into multiple packages is not enough - the source tarball
still consists of hundreds of images of child sexual abuse.

FTPmaster's job isn't just to check licenses - our mirror network relies
on us to make sure the content we ask them to distribute is not going to
get them in trouble. You think we'd still have a single mirror left if
we handed them childrape.orig.tar.gz? You think FTPmaster wants to put
themselves in a legal situation where they can't even review the package
because it's illegal where they are (as is the case for most of the team

And let's say all the artwork gets removed. Everything in seks/,
portions of char/, most of det/ (oh look, bestiality, had not noticed
that before) and gal/. What's left? A mostly-text game about saving the
world through child abuse.

Thankfully, since the Code of Conduct GR hasn't passed yet, I can say,
quite happily: PLEASE fuck off. The harm you're trying to cause Debian
is hard to measure.

I'm not opposed to visual novels. I've played and enjoyed some. I'm not
opposed to interactive fiction. I'm not opposed to games where the
protagonist is not a sympathetic person. I *am* opposed to any effort
wasted by serious Debian contributors to upload child rape fantasies to
the archive.

Again, please just fuck off elsewhere.

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