Re: DW (was: Re: [gnome-women] Getting a Web Site Up & Logo Contest status)
- To: Debian-Women <email@example.com>
- Subject: Re: DW (was: Re: [gnome-women] Getting a Web Site Up & Logo Contest status)
- From: Clytie Siddall <firstname.lastname@example.org>
- Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:45:36 +0930
- Message-id: <3FDF4CFD-0BA3-4F10-A625-A76AC196BD68@riverland.net.au>
- In-reply-to: <20050810005500.GA15596@double-helix.org>
- References: <email@example.com> <D8ADA59C-1837-45E9-B74E-F064422F2FF1@riverland.net.au> <20050808162749.GC9144@double-helix.org> <4533877F-23B9-4A90-9DD0-65D2735A6F37@riverland.net.au> <20050810005500.GA15596@double-helix.org>
This has split from a discussion on Gnome-Women on future aims for
that group. In discussing that there, I'd said there were some things
that were working for D-W, and some things that weren't.
There was no intention to insult anyone. (I don't even know how, for
heaven's sake. I'm harmless! :) )
On 10/08/2005, at 10:25 AM, Erinn Clark wrote:
Well, one thing you fail to recognize is that there is a difficult
balance to maintain.
No, I do realize that. That's why I joined in the discussion on gnome-
women (of which I am a contributing member), and pointed out that
some things were or were not working for D-W. We can learn from each
other's experience. There wouldn't be much to learn from if we didn't
(Highly) technical people involved are totally
underwhelmed by some technology and do not want to use it and in our
case, they tend to be the people in charge of how things get done; CVS
may be easy for committing purposes, but it also sucks. Highly
discussion may be off-putting to some newbies, but it's interesting to
non-newbies and *they* will leave if the level of discourse does not
match their experience. So, sure -- it's possible that DW has some of
these issues, but it's absolutely NOT specific to DW and had I
felt this was an issue, I would've patiently listened to your ideas
improving it and seeing what could be done. Alas.
Either way, it would've been totally appropriate to bring this up on
DW's list, but the fact that you brought it up here instead -- without
any real desire for resolution -- is what makes it insulting.
Erinn, I _have_ tried to bring up some of these issues, but the
response is so vehement, and ignores so much of what I said in the
original email, assumes so much of what I definitely _haven't_ said,
that I am not game to keep trying with the topic.
I find that type of response uncomfortable, confusing and
discouraging. Please note, as I specified early on, that I am very
ill and have great difficulty posting at all, let alone handling
emotional stress and responses that misunderstand what I say.
Perhaps I don't explain myself well? I don't know.
However, for any person here, regardless of background, I believe the
response should be:
I hear what you're saying (I've taken enough time to read it and try
to understand it: if not, I ask polite questions)
I am willing to let you explain it
I will give you room to learn and grow
I think this is really important, if we want to attract new people
here, and encourage them to take risks and branch out.
It does distress me that I could be assumed to be attacking D-W, when
I have evidently put a lot of my time into following the list, trying
to encourage new members, working on the main site and the wiki. It
doesn't make sense. :(
Let's look at what we are doing to encourage new members, people
lurking, who may not have enough confidence to take part here. Why is
this? What can we do to encourage them? How would they like us to
respond? Do they feel welcome here, safe to express opinion, and to
make occasional mistakes, or not to have the same level of experience
and knowledge as others?
Please, read this email and think about what I am trying to say,
before responding. I am unable to handle the level of stress I've
been encountering on this list, and will have to leave it if it
continues. I don't want to have to do that: I think what we have here
is worth a lot of effort. I'm just running out. :(
With good-will and caring, as always
from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nhóm
Việt hóa phần mềm tự do)