Re: DW (was: Re: [gnome-women] Getting a Web Site Up & Logo Contest status)

[Clytie Siddall <clytie@riverland.net.au>]

This has split from a discussion on Gnome-Women on future aims for  
that group. In discussing that there, I'd said there were some things  
that were working for D-W, and some things that weren't.

There was no intention to insult anyone. (I don't even know how, for  
heaven's sake. I'm harmless! :) )

On 10/08/2005, at 10:25 AM, Erinn Clark wrote:

> Well, one thing you fail to recognize is that there is a difficult
> balance to maintain.

No, I do realize that. That's why I joined in the discussion on gnome- 
women (of which I am a contributing member), and pointed out that  
some things were or were not working for D-W. We can learn from each  
other's experience. There wouldn't be much to learn from if we didn't  
make mistakes.

> (Highly) technical people involved are totally
> underwhelmed by some technology and do not want to use it and in our
> case, they tend to be the people in charge of how things get done; CVS
> may be easy for committing purposes, but it also sucks. Highly  
> technical
> discussion may be off-putting to some newbies, but it's interesting to
> non-newbies and *they* will leave if the level of discourse does not
> match their experience. So, sure -- it's possible that DW has some of
> these issues, but it's absolutely NOT specific to DW and had I  
> known you
> felt this was an issue, I would've patiently listened to your ideas  
> for
> improving it and seeing what could be done. Alas.
>
> Either way, it would've been totally appropriate to bring this up on
> DW's list, but the fact that you brought it up here instead -- without
> any real desire for resolution -- is what makes it insulting.

Erinn, I _have_ tried to bring up some of these issues, but the  
response is so vehement, and ignores so much of what I said in the  
original email, assumes so much of what I definitely _haven't_ said,  
that I am not game to keep trying with the topic.

I find that type of response uncomfortable, confusing and  
discouraging. Please note, as I specified early on, that I am very  
ill and have great difficulty posting at all, let alone handling  
emotional stress and responses that misunderstand what I say.

Perhaps I don't explain myself well? I don't know.

However, for any person here, regardless of background, I believe the  
response should be:

I hear what you're saying (I've taken enough time to read it and try  
to understand it: if not, I ask polite questions)
I am willing to let you explain it
I will give you room to learn and grow

I think this is really important, if we want to attract new people  
here, and encourage them to take risks and branch out.

It does distress me that I could be assumed to be attacking D-W, when  
I have evidently put a lot of my time into following the list, trying  
to encourage new members, working on the main site and the wiki. It  
doesn't make sense. :(

Let's look at what we are doing to encourage new members, people  
lurking, who may not have enough confidence to take part here. Why is  
this? What can we do to encourage them? How would they like us to  
respond? Do they feel welcome here, safe to express opinion, and to  
make occasional mistakes, or not to have the same level of experience  
and knowledge as others?

Please, read this email and think about what I am trying to say,  
before responding. I am unable to handle the level of stress I've  
been encountering on this list, and will have to leave it if it  
continues. I don't want to have to do that: I think what we have here  
is worth a lot of effort. I'm just running out. :(

With good-will and caring, as always

from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nhóm  
Việt hóa phần mềm tự do)
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN