Bug#804315: [Vmdebootstrap-devel] Bug#804315: Namespace issues

Greetings,

On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 3:06 AM, Neil Williams <codehelp@debian.org> wrote:

On Mon, 9 Nov 2015 08:59:41 +0100
chals <chals@chalsattack.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 12:45 AM, Iain R. Learmonth <irl@debian.org>
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >

<snip>

> Hi,
>
> Reading what you say, and I beg your pardon before going on, I can
> tell that you absolutely have no idea about what the debian live
> project is or about its history. But well, I have to admit that if
> what you say is true, then you have a point.

I've been involved with debian-live before. I remember a meeting with
the live team at a previous debconf (Argentina?) where one of my
previous rootfs build tools [multistrap] was being considered for a
role within live but we didn't find a good match.

> You say "I'm aware that I'm going to be upsetting people, but this has
> been a long time coming"
>
> Yes you are absolutely right, you are upsetting people, people like me
> who have contributed to debian for years and spent hours of effort to
> make things better.

Sorry, but I'm assuming you don't mean that Iain, Steve or I haven't
spent years contributing and uploading to Debian and years and years of
effort to make Debian better.

I do not think that is the intent of Chals statement, I believe he is referencing the caring that he and many others have given the project and namespace that appears to be being hijacked and at the least invaded.

> "A long time coming"? Excuse me, but the first thing I've ever heard
> in all these years is that you and I mean you (not the debian cd team,
> who supposedly is responsible for this upheaval)

It is the team. Steve has been asking me for this support in
vmdebootstrap for months and months. Every time there is a release or a
point release, I get more nagging because he has to struggle with
fixing live-*.

I asked this in another response and not to be confused but, does the debian-cd team speak for all of Debian and its users?

> shows up from out of
> the blue claiming that you have the right to do as you please and
> decide about the future of the debian live team.

Iain is not on his own. This comes from the debian-cd team. Steve has
been nagging me for vmdebootstrap support to replace live-build since
about a week after vmdebootstrap arrived in Debian, certainly before
the Jessie release.

Seems to be a project idea really centered around vmdebootstrap and maybe a good basename for a project namesapce.

> This is, from my point of view, an act of dictatorship and with my
> authority as a debian user and contributor for years I demand you step
> down from your position and ask for forgiveness to the debian live
> team for being so rude, impolite and not worthy of any more of my
> priceless words and time.

Not going to happen. Just what "authority" is a user meant to have?

Hmm, strong words, but all I can say is no users no community.

Those who do the work in Debian earn the right to make the decisions on
how that work is done in Debian.

I understand your statement, but, if those who make the decisions choose not to consider feedback and/or fail to listen to the community, well this travels down the road to the definition of dictatorship.

--

Neil Williams
=============
http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/