Re: aims of the wiki?
On Wed, Aug 20, 2025 at 10:21:28AM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> On Mon Aug 18, 2025 at 9:42 AM BST, Beatrice Torracca wrote:
> > We had some pages with info on packages that added very little to what
> > one can find in packages.debian.org - a description, a screenshot,
> > installation instructions (which are the same for every package...)
>
> I agree, these pages are useless. I think they should be deleted, with one
> exception: if they have very recently been created, and they are still being
> worked on, and there's the potential they will have something on them which
> is valuable but the author hasn't finished producing it. (I don't know if
> any pages we have at the moment fit this criteria)
>
> Even on other pages which have reason to exist, I often see variations of
> `apt-get install some-package`: sometimes prefixed sudo, sometimes apt,
> sometimes apt-get, sometimes --no-install-recommends… IMHO we should
> document somewhere just once "how to install a package" and point at that
> rather than have inconsistent and incomplete examples littering lots of
> pages.
I don't object to deleting stub package pages in principle, with the caveat
that it might get mildly Sisyphean when new people turn up and recreate them.
For boilerplate text, how about this[0][1]? Add {{PageHeader|Package=...}}
and you get whatever boilerplate is best. For now I've just added some
common links and an `apt-get install` line, but for example we could
have it reach out to an external data source and link to all the man pages
in the package.
We talked in another subthread about automatically deleting (or just tagging)
pages for packages that have been removed from Debian. Adding parameters
to a generic template would make that easy in future.
>
> > Then of course there is the problem with not wanting to delete/change
> > parts of a page to not offend the author and so recreating a different
> > page with some of the same information creating internal redundancy.
>
> We need people to resist this somehow. Creating sub-pages under user names
> makes things worse, IMHO: I'm much more likely to feel I'm treading on
> someone's toes if the page is JaneBloggs/Something than merely Something.
Ceppo updated the WikiRevamp page yesterday, but I have no way to communicate
my appreciation - the best I can do is to remain silent (or concoct an excuse
to mention it on the ML ;). I've been on the opposite side of that equation
many times, and the "get told off or be ignored" thing probably does discourage
me from touching pages other people maintain.
The new wiki seems to have the Thanks extension[2] installed. If you go to
RecentChanges while logged in and look for links marked "thank"[3], you can
thank people for their contributions with a couple of clicks. These go in
a public log[4], and presumably notify the user somehow.
Might that be a way to encourage people to help each other out?
> > As much as it pains me to say it, I think the Wiki (old and new) would
> > benefit from a more strict Merge/Delete policy to avoid redundant or
> > outdated contents.
>
> Agreed. Both strict and enforced. Deletion is reversible if mistakes are
> made or decisions change.
We've talked about this on IRC before, but for the benefit of people who
aren't on there - part of the problem is that MoinMoin's deleted pages look
almost exactly like pages that were never created. To tell the difference,
you have to know that the "Info" link etc. are missing for new pages.
MediaWiki's deleted pages are clearer, and you can edit the message
by editing the special MediaWiki:Moveddeleted-notice page. For example,
we could provide guidance about finding why the page was deleted and
what to do if you want to undelete it.
If the new wiki makes it practical to treat deletion as a temporary state,
maybe that could help break the taboo around it?
[0] https://wiki2025.debian.org/wiki/ExampleForPackage
[1] https://wiki2025.debian.org/wiki/Template:PageHeader/Package
[2] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Thanks
[3] https://wiki2025.debian.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges#:~:text=thank
[4] https://wiki2025.debian.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=thanks
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