If we're Going to Have Alternate Init Systems, we need to Understand Apt Dependencies
>>>>> "Ansgar" == Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> writes:
Ansgar> Adam Borowski writes:
>> * dependencies on "systemd | other" rather than "other |
>> systemd"; this is a no-op on a systemd system (installed by
>> debootstrap before any non-base packages) but causes apt to force
>> an init+rc switch elsewhere
Ansgar> It's very likely not a no-op on systemd systems as
Ansgar> significantly more people somehow got systemd-shim installed
Ansgar> than had sysvinit-core, see for example [1] which shows that
Ansgar> somehow the "no-op" results in systemd-shim getting
Ansgar> installed (which caused problems in the past).
Ansgar> Just because you don't observe unwanted behavior happening
Ansgar> right now on your system doesn't imply it doesn't exist.
Ansgar> And the unwanted behavior that you say wouldn't happen (as
Ansgar> it is supposedly a "no-op") happens on a scale larger than
Ansgar> the entire sysvinit user base here...
Ansgar, you keep bringing this issue up.
And it keeps coming up as "Stuff might happen that we don't really
understand."
That's deeply unsatisfying to hear.
And I think it's deeply unsatisfying to you when you hear that people
talk about playing alternative games and assuming it's just going to
work out.
But this issue has kind of reached the level of FUD on both sides.
In that it's really hard to respond to "bad stuff might happen," and yet
you've also presented evidence that there's something that needs to be
considered.
I think the way forward is to actually try and get people to explore
what the issues are and to write them up for all of us.
And once we've done that, assuming that we've done a credible job of
trying to research it, trust our conclusions.
Yeah, we might introduce bugs and have to revise those conclusions.
But saying "something bad might happen but we don't know what,"
is really frustrating to hear.
I do understand it's also frustrating when you keep bringing up a real
concern and it is dismissed.
have stron
If one of the options that promotes alternatives wins, I think it's
important to do this work.
I think the work would be valuable regardless of which option wins, but
especially if we're going to continue to support alternate init systems.
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