Re: Q: NEW process licence requirements

[Chris Lamb <lamby@debian.org>]

Hi Adrian,

> A constant source of frustration is the intransparent licence
> checking process in NEW, and intransparency regarding what the
> ftp team considers mandatory for debian/copyright.

Thanks for your question. So, I won't specifically respond to any of
the separate sub-issues in this area (transparency vs inconsistency
vs legality, etc.) and humbly beg that we leave that to a more
appropriate list to avoid this thread going off-topic too soon. I'm
sure you know how these things work.

So, I completely agree that the current situation is in a very bad
way. Indeed, it is not sustainable for the ftp-team itself.

I've recently been in direct discussion with the ftp-team members on
this, both electronically and IRL, specifically requesting that it
be included in the agenda for upcoming sprint in April. Unfortunately,
I will not be able to attend this myself to persue the issue in person.

I also totally acknowledge that there is a wide gap between perception
and reality here & further ACK that this makes difference whatsoever
for anyone needing to interact with NEW. It was wise of you to imply
that communication is critical.

With regard to your request for a timeline or schedule, whilst targets
of this kind can often help prioritisation and focus work, applying my
best judgement I do not believe that imposing an ultimatum on the ftp-
team to be the best way forward here.

I have always instinctively felt such things to be antithetical to the
spirit of Debian development so should only be applied in extreme
circumstances. With respect to the frustrations expressed here and
elsewhere, I don't believe we have reached that point just yet.


> rules that appear to be pointless and only designed to create
> additional work set by people with absolute powers
[…]
> reasons that appear to be arbitrary and pointless, or there
> is nitpicking
[…]
> a real risk that people might be leaving the project

I'm afraid I simply can't reply without making a more general comment
with respect to this kind of argument style.

Don't get me wrong, I *completely* understand and empathise with the
frustrations here, but do we really want to a culture in Debian where
it is acceptable to publically belittle others' efforts using such
emotionally loaded words or in such a combatitive / adversarial manner?

I'm sure many Developers have thick skins and perhaps even take pride
in conversing in an "objective" way, but do we really think this is best
way as a Project to get things done? I personally don't and I believe
that the silent majority not find satisfication, purpose or enjoyment
from such a community.

If you will permit me to exaggerate for a moment, if anybody is leaving
the Project it is due to sustained exposure to such low-level
toxicity.  :(


Best wishes,

-- 
      ,''`.
     : :'  :     Chris Lamb
     `. `'`      lamby@debian.org / chris-lamb.co.uk
       `-