Re: Amendment to Proposed GR: Declassifying parts of -private of historical interest
On Sun, Aug 07, 2016 at 04:53:09PM +0200, Nicolas Dandrimont wrote:
> * Bart Martens <bartm@debian.org> [2016-08-07 13:58:46 +0000]:
>
> > Hi Nicolas,
>
> Hi,
>
> > On Sun, Aug 07, 2016 at 02:54:36PM +0200, Nicolas Dandrimont wrote:
> > > In my opinion the only point in this General Resolution is allowing the
> > > declassification of the early years of -private, where the mailing list was
> > > used as a "project" mailing list rather than for discussing actually sensitive
> > > matters.
> >
> > Then the text of GR 2016/vote_002 should have reflected that.
> >
> > > I expect a sensible declassification process to allow the original authors to
> > > decide on whether their messages should be declassified or not, if an explicit
> > > disclaimer has not been put in the message.
> >
> > Then the text of GR 2016/vote_002 should have reflected that.
>
> Encoding the process down to the nitty gritty details
Don't get me wrong, I agree with your two points quoted above. I just think
that these are not just "nitty gritty details of the process" but elements that
make it a different GR.
> is what discouraged
> people to actually do the work in the first place. I'm glad that Don's
> amendment doesn't do that, and, who knows, it might even encourage people to
> get things done, finally.
I think we agree that GR texts should be formulated high-level (the "what"
part), allowing the people doing the actual work plenty room on the "how" part.
> > I have now voted against GR 2016/vote_002 because it allows declassification of
> > anything ever posted on debian-private against the authors' will.
>
> But do we really think that's what is going to happen? Can't we trust the
> listmasters to respect the privacy that they have upheld for the last 10+
> years?
>
> Why is it so hard to trust the people who actually want to do the work to
> come up with a sensible process?
I'm not questioning the trust that the listmasters deserve. I'm questioning the
scope of this GR. The listmasters are not malicious people but they may make
different privacy assessments than the original authors of messages on
debian-private might make. You've proven that point today on debian-private.
>
> > I hope that everyone fully realizes that before voting.
>
> And I hope that, at one point, we as a project will learn to trust one another
> and stop micro-managing people that actually want to get things done.
It's really not about trust and micro-management, but about "what" we want do
decide with this GR.
For example, your two points quoted above could easily be included in a GR text
using these phrases:
- "The scope is limited to messages posted on debian-private before
debian-project was introduced." (And I have no strong opinion on whether this
should be included.)
- "The consent of the original author of the message on debian-private is
required before declassification." (I think this should have been in.)
Regards,
Bart Martens
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