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Re: Can you all please stop?

Russ Allbery said:

>Andrew McGlashan <andrew.mcglashan@affinityvision.com.au> writes:
>> If upstream is the problem, then they need lobbying; just accepting what
>> upstream does is a very serious problem
>I think this is an interesting statement.  Personally, I would turn it on
>its head.
>I believe that the core, beautiful, exciting thing that we do inside
>Debian, and that any other excellent Linux distribution does, is exactly
>accepting what upstream does.  Not accepting in the sense of passive
>apathy, but in the sense of wholehearted embrace of upstream's ideas,
>expertise, passion, and hard work, and finding a way to incorporate that
>into our distribution.

Not every upstream "contribution" is suitable for incorporation into
_our_ distribution.

>Acceptance in the sense of reaching out with both hands and taking hold
>of the gift we are given with a firm grasp and a grateful heart.


What's happening here is Debian allowing _one_ upstream source to turn
_our_ distribution on it's head.

>Linux distributions are *all about* upstreams. Those upstreams are
>the reason why we're here.

Distributions choose appropriate components from upstream sources.

Components which are incompatible with a distribution's design are
clearly inappropriate.

>Those upstreams are the reason why Linux is something with a name that
>we can all use.

Distributions assemble disparate components from upstream and local
sources into usable systems.

>Those upstreams are individual people with a passion for some specific
>problem, who have dug into that problem and thought hard about it and
>produced the best solution to that problem that they can think of and

Upstreams implement the solutions that they want to implement in the
manner that they see fit.

Some upstreams have an agenda, some don't.

>They are our friends, our colleagues, our benefactors.

[snip: metaphor]

>Accepting what upstream does is not a bug.

Doing so most certainly _can_ be a bug.

>Accepting, not thoughtlessly but thoughtfully and openly, respectfully
>and with passion and care,

The particular case at hand is an example of the tyranny of the
minority. It is clear to the un-blinkered that there's nothing
thoughtful, open, or respectful here.

>what upstream does is an act of gratitude, support, and friendship that
>helps weave our community together into something that's more than the
>sum of its parts.

The amount of user pushback generated by systemd is a clear indicator
that the whole will be less than the sum of its parts. 

Ignoring the 800 pound gorilla in the room is nothing less than

Steve Kostecke <steve@debian.org>

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