Re: drop or keep non-free - from users viewpoint
On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 18:40:13 +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> We should all boycott nvidia, as they are the epythom of evilness in
> what consists of non-freeness of drivers.
yes, i would never buy a nvidia card.
>> That's a point who i have never understand in this discussion. Every one
>> can install whatever he want on his system, even if Debian drops non-free
>> the driver and all other programs will still be out there and you are free
>
> It would be a regression over the current state of things.
or an progression, it depends whether your first goal is to have more software
or to have free software.
>> to install it on your system. The only question in my view is, if Debian
>> will support this Software by using there resources, create Debian
>> packages which are hosted on the Debian Server and promote this software
>> with the Debian label? Or is the support enough if Debian gives everyone
>> the informations to built, create and insert every software they want
>> to there Debian System?
>
> Ah, let's move to running Gentoo, should we ?
i don't know what you mean. What have gentoo to do with it? I think Gentoo is
more non-free than Debian.
> Ok, so no 3D graphics for you, and you actually gave money to the
> greatest enemy of free hardware drivers that there is. You are aware
> that nvidia doesn't give out specs to anybody, that they insist on doing
> all the driver work themselves in house, and expect people to pay them
> to do so.
I would never buy a nvidia graphic-card, this card was part of the computer
which i bought 4 years ago. And because i have no special requirement for a
graphic-card i have never bought a new one.
> A, yes ? And are you aware that no graphic card newer than the radeon
> 9200 will have free drivers ?
yes, but at the moment i think that would be more than enough graphic-power for
my use. If this is sometimes not enough for my needs than i have to think
about it. But also if i will use some days a graphic-card with non-free
drivers i would never demand from Debian to provide these drivers because
i think thats not the job of Debian.
> So, and it was usefull to you ? Do you not think that other people may
> need stuff from non-free today ?
Yes, but as i said i think it's not the job from Debian to provide this
software. This software is out there and everybody who need it can use it. But
i think Debian don't have to provide everything which is theoretical possible.
As i needed spim, there was a lot of students which uses Windows, SuSE,
Mandrake, RedHat,... everyone has downloaded it from the developers homepage
and installed it. I would have no problem to do the same thing. I would never
demand from Debian to provide non-free Software to me. I think Debian has it's
own goals an philosophy and doesn't have to make some single person like me
happy by providing some non-free software.
Debian is the only Distribution which is near to an 100% free Operating
System. If the free software community has one System to show the people "look
at us, you can use a computer with entirely free software. Maybe there are some
special things which will not work with free software, but the most things
works really god" than it's Debian and i think Debian should keep this role or
expand it if possible.
I think today you can use your computer only with free software, even if you
have extreme proprietary hardware like nvidia. You maybe can't use 3D
power but a lot of people doesn't really need it. And if you need it,
than you can go to the vendors homepage and take some drivers, therefore
you don't need Debian.
> Yeah, but i believe that the discussion with the author carries more
> strength if said package is in the non-free area of our infrastructure.
> Also, you completely forget about the BTS, and the quality assurance
> this brings with it, which are also an argument in this discussion.
But the the BTS and the quality assurance are also available for non-free.
So non-free provides already a great platform for non-free software and
drivers that developers and vendors maybe don't have many incentive to
go from non-free to main. If there software wouldn't have this great
infrastructure it would be more interesting for them to become a Debian
package to profit from the BTS and the whole infrastructure.
Cheers,
Markus
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