[Date Prev][Date Next] [Thread Prev][Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]

Voting system stuff, again [Was: thoughts on potential outcomes for non-free ballot]



On Sat, Jan 24, 2004 at 03:27:55PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 24, 2004 at 04:42:05AM +0000, Andrew Suffield wrote:
> > On Fri, Jan 23, 2004 at 12:38:01PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> > > At the moment the substantive options that have been discussed are:
> > > 	[   ] Drop non-free
> > > 	[   ] Limit non-free to partially-DFSG-free software
> > > 	<   > Keep non-free as is (unproposed)
> > Before anybody gets a bright idea, that last one doesn't need
> > proposing, as it is the default option on the ballot; "Further
> > discussion" is precisely this scenario.
> 
> No, that's not the case. Debian resolving to keep non-free as is is not
> the same as Debian deciding to discuss the matter further.

For practical purposes, the outcome is identical. "Keep non-free"
means "nothing changes" and "Further discussion" means "nothing
changes" (see below for conclusions).

> In particular, that option is required to allow people to vote:
> 
> 	[ 1 ] Keep non-free
> 	[ 2 ] Drop non-free
> 	[ 3 ] Further discussion
> 
> should they prefer to keep non-free, but believe that dropping it is an
> acceptable outcome if that's what most of Debian prefers. That's how I
> expect to vote.
> 
> I'd be very surprised if there weren't a quarter of Debian who would
> rather keep non-free than drop it (considering that's around the
> proportion who maintain non-free packages), so without the separate
> option, this proposal seems impossible to pass.

(I think it's so close to the line that speculating is futile, but
that's not relevant)

> Note that:
> 
> 	100 votes Further discussion > Drop non-free
> 	290 votes Drop non-free > Further Discussion
> 
> will cause Further discussion to win; while:
> 
> 	 50 votes Keep non-free > Further discussion > Drop non-free
> 	 50 votes Keep non-free > Drop non-free > Further discussion
> 	290 votes Drop non-free > Keep non-free > Further discussion
> 
> will cause Drop non-free to win.

...but this is something else.

I don't see why this:

> 	[ 1 ] Keep non-free
> 	[ 2 ] Drop non-free
> 	[ 3 ] Further discussion

indicates what you describe. Surely it says:

"I would rather maintain the status quo than drop non-free. I would
rather drop non-free than maintain the status quo"

And that's an intrinsically insincere vote (it is not a partial
ordering of the options; transitivity is violated).

If there is a genuine issue here, then it's a matter for the secretery
when constructing the ballot, not a formal proposal in its own right
(ie, if what you describe is accurate, then the ballot must be formed
in this way regardless of whether anybody is willing to second a
resolution that says "Nothing changes" or not, and that probably
applies to most other ballots too).

I *think* that you're describing a scenario with a large number of
insincere voters, though.

-- 
  .''`.  ** Debian GNU/Linux ** | Andrew Suffield
 : :' :  http://www.debian.org/ |
 `. `'                          |
   `-             -><-          |

Attachment: signature.asc
Description: Digital signature


Reply to: