Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]
On 09-08-2021 07:33, Andy Smith wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On Sun, Aug 08, 2021 at 11:00:55PM +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
>> On Sun, Aug 08, 2021 at 03:26:25PM +0000, Andy Smith wrote:
>> > To be honest I don't think that mailing lists are a very good venue
>> > for user support and I would these days prefer to direct people to a
>> > Stack Overflow-like site [...]
>>
>> I stringly disagree on that one. There's tooling and there's
>> politeness, and they are, IMO, uncorrelated variables.
>
> A lack of politeness isn't really debian-user's biggest problem. I
> think debian-user's biggest problem is the lack of restraint
> prolific posters have on posting every thought that comes into their
> heads and debating such into the ground.
We all have our perceptions.
This would appear to be an overly dramatic one.
`posting every thought that comes into their
> heads and debating such into the ground' - really?
If there's a problem requiring resolution, I think it might pay to be
more concise than that.
> That sort of thing is not really possible on a question-answer site
> as conciseness is rewarded in both question and answer.
Not in the reality I inhabit.
I'm a member of a couple of stack sires, and I have witnessed many a
humorous aside and any number of examples of downright rudeness.
>> Some people are rather wired towards "forum style", others more
>> towards "mail style" -- and I think that's why this kind of
>> discussion tends to come up time and again.
>
> I haven't advocated for a forum. What I've suggested is that a
> discussion list tends to promote discussion, not user support.
How do you get the one without the other?
It is possible to have both and, as I have stated in the past, without
some level of discussion, there is very little in the aspect of
community promotion. I believe that's every bit as important. Human
beings are pack animals, with a need for interaction in any social
context. To stifle that, unnecessarily, would be a major step toward
making the list unproductive in everybody's view except for those who
delight in putting their mental straitjacket on in the mornings.
The sort of personality (or lack of it) wh would see this discussion,
for example, as `unproductive and undesireable'.
>> > The main reason why I see mailing lists as inappropriate for user
>> > support is that there is a severe signal to noise ratio problem.
There is also an extremely efficient means of weeding out those
conversations an individual sees as not necessary for their immediate
notice, or downright unnecessary, and ones they see as beng answerable -
within ther capability - and of interest. Personally, that takes me all
of 5 seconds.
>> I think you'll get the same on unmoderated fora.
>
> …which, again, I haven't suggested. I don't know why you keep going
> back to the idea of web forums. It's obvious that a web discussion
> forum would have the same problems as an email discussion list, if
> it were unmoderated.
>
> My only suggestion was a Stack Overflow-style question-answer site.
> Those aren't discussion forums.
>
> Off-topic discussion is specifically something which I suggest there
> is too much of here.
It depends on what you see as `off-topic'. Your view is yours, and not
necessarily everybody's.
Do you see the value in discussion, yet?
> Have a look at https://askubuntu.com/ to get some sort of idea,
> since that is at least a Debian derivative. But as I said, it has
> been tried before and I think won't/can't succeed without buy-in
> from the project.
>
>> I feel we aren't doing that bad, considering the volume.
>
> It is perhaps not so bad for a general Debian community discussion
> group, where you would go into it thinking that pretty much anything
> goes, but the fact is that this is Debian's primary support venue
> for users new and old.
Something it has been doing very well at for some considerable time now.
> I don't think that both audiences can be catered for in the same
> place and I really think that we could and should do better.
It's only the one audience, and I have observed almost all members of
that audience indulging in what you see as `both' forms of discussion,
where I don't, seeing all discussion as constructive and just different
aspects of the same stream.
Cheers!
Harry.
--
`Unthinking respect for authority is
the greatest enemy of truth'.
-- Albert Einstein
Reply to: