Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question]
On Fri 26 Feb 2021 at 13:59:38 +0100, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 02:08:26PM +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > On Jo, 25 feb 21, 11:53:18, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > >
> > > No worries. Things happen -- and in this case you happened to step
> > > onto a sticky issue which has no "nice" solution. The two extremes
> > >
> > > (a) Debian should be a free distribution. If you're holding a
> > > Debian "CD" [1] on your hands, you should be safe trusting
> > > that all the stuff in there is free to use, study, modify
> > > and give to others
> > >
> > > (b) Debian should be welcoming to newbies, it should be easy
> > > to install
> > >
> > > This is a point of conflict, and won't be solved as long as there
> > > are hardware companies out there saying "my firmware is MINE and
> > > you are not allowed to redistribute it" while at the same time
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > spreading this oh-too-valuable-stuff all over the Internets.
> >
> > It's more complicated than this. Debian is allowed distribute the
> > firmware (otherwise it wouldn't be included in non-free or in the
> > image), but the firmware doesn't satisfy one or more of the requirements
> > in the Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG)[1].
>
> You're right. This was a too-abbreviated version. So much as
> to be wrong.
AFAIAC, it was in the right ballpark. For various reasons, many firmware
blobs are seen by Debian as non-free. Debian, and Debian users, have to
live with this. Hardware vendors suddenly seeing the light is unlikely,
as is some skilled user devising a tool chain to produce free versions.
> There are those cases -- where the end user is supposed to
> download the stuff directly; there, the Debian package is
> just a wrapper which does the download and marks the package
> as installed. But this isn't typical for firmware, it happens
> rather with video drivers et al.
>
> For firmware, you might encounter other nasties, like (as
> you stated) no source, perhaps some form of prohibition
> of reverse engineering (legally void in many jurisdictions
> anyway)... lots of stuff contradicting DFSG.
>
> Whether that's progress or not depends on your goals, of course.
> That's why Debian tries hard to keep things separate.
A 64-bit netinstall is prominent on the Debian main page. The
problem with that image is that it is unlikely to suit many users
with wireless-only connectivity. No obvious escape route is
advertised. Yes, I know - if a site search is conducted, a better
(non-free) image will be located. Jumping through hoops comes to
mind!
--
Brian.
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