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Re: Upstream Default (FOSS) DDX Driver for NVidia GPUs is not Nouveau

On 2021-01-20 at 21:17, Felix Miata wrote:

> The Wanderer composed on 2021-01-20 19:44 (UTC-0500):
>> Felix Miata wrote:
>>> Sven Joachim composed on 2021-01-20 23:18 (UTC+0100):
>>>> the upstream Xorg server still uses a graphics card specific
>>>> driver if available.
>>> That was exactly one of my points. "If available" equates to they
>>> are optional, not needed by primarily AMD, Intel and NVidia
>>> graphics devices made since somewhere around 2010.
>> This looks like another case (which I hadn't noticed before) of a 
>> difference in possible meanings of "default".
>> Some people may read "the default DDX driver" to mean "the DDX
>> driver which will be used unless something tells it to do
>> otherwise". I'm guessing this is how Sven read it.
> Above was mine.

In that case I'm not sure how this fits with your statement about "if
available", above.

>> Other people may read it to mean "the DDX driver which will be used
>> in the default case where no better one is available". I'm guessing
>> this is how you intended it.
> Others might, but not me as worded. The crutch word there is
> "better".

Acknowledged; discard that. Try "where no alternative is available"
instead. (I couldn't think of preferable wording at the time of posting,
but the latter has come to me since.)

> To me in this context default means the one that will be used, if
> supported, when no /unneeded/ and thus optional DDX drivers drivers
> are installed, aka none of xf86-video-* are installed.

In other words, "in the default case where no alternative is available".

I used "better" originally because presumably the system would not
choose the other over this, when the other is available, if it did not
expect the other to provide better results.

> Because most mainstream hardware of the day, and since, is supported,
> none of the optionals are /needed/ (as long as a fully-functional
> DRM/KMS kernel module exists). The installation of the optional
> drivers equates to something telling it to do otherwise.

I don't read the action of installing an optional driver as telling the
system to use that driver. Installing a driver merely makes it
available, it does not explicitly tell the system to use it; telling the
system to use that driver would require something like specifying which
driver to use in a configuration file.

>>> Since a year or so of server 1.17.0 appearance, the GPU-specific
>>> DDX drivers spend a bare minimum of time installed on the vast
>>> majority of my PCs. Other than AMDGPU, the others occasionally
>>> get installed only temporarily for quick testing and then are
>>> removed.
>> One thing which I haven't been able to make out yet in reading
>> about these modesetting drivers: how well do they work for 3D
>> performance? Or for that matter, high-end 2D, such as you get with
>> Dwarf Fortress?
> I have no experience with, or interest in, any sort of gaming,
> computer or otherwise.

3D performance does not always mean gaming (though I'll admit that's the
overwhelmingly most common case for it I can think of), but fair enough.

That does mean that your recommendations don't necessarily generalize to
what many other people are going to want, however, so it would be worth
making clear when you advocate for the modesetting drivers only that you
can't testify to whether they work for 3D performance.

>> The only positive statements I've found so far, that I recall, are
>> that they work well for 2D acceleration on at least some (if not
>> most) GPU models.
>> If you're using them near-exclusively on most of your PCs, that
>> could imply that they work fine for 3D etc., or simply that you
>> don't tend to need those things on those PCs.
> The latter. To me, 2D and 3D have no relevant meaning in a computing
> context. I can't tell where 2D stops and 3D starts. 3D only simulates
> 3 dimensions. A screen only displays 2 dimensions. What's the fuss?

A 2D representation of a 3D space is much harder to calculate and render
on the fly than is a 2D representation of a 2D space, and so requires
much more computing power. If you happen to want the former, and your
system is only set up to be able to provide the latter, you may wind up
with an unpleasant low-performance surprise one day.

> When I want TV I use a TV and remote controller and an easy chair or
> sofa, not a workchair and desk and rodent and keyboard and all the
> distractions of multitasking. My computers are general purpose tools
> for getting work done.

Computers are tools for automation. What makes things interesting is the
question of what one chooses to automate.

> Most videos are primarily time devouring entertainers, amusement.
> a (as first letter as affects meaning of word): anti or not
> muse: v: to think or ruminate upon.
> thus:
> amuse: literally not think or unthink

https://www.etymonline.com/word/amuse states that this is the "to, at"
prefix from Latin in a sense of "causing to", not the "not, without" one
from Greek.

   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man.         -- George Bernard Shaw

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