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Re: FW: Re: Release status of i386 for Bullseye and long term support for 3 years?



Hi Andrei,
thank you for posting on this very important topic.

I want to share my experience and view hoping that you draw some useful
conclusions and we can keep i386 in some way available.

Andrei POPESCU wrote:

[snip]

> 
> My intuition is also that i386, although becoming less popular, was
> starting from such a huge install base that the resources are probably out
> there somewhere.
> 
>> Further, unless "sudden death of most porters" can be added to the list
>> of bad events of 2020, I feel confident in saying that there are still
>> probably some more people who simply haven't gotten around to confirming
>> that they can be a porter.
> 
> I agree.  Most of my point is just that they should do that.  :)  Now's
> the time.
> 

My use of i386 is on a geode based Accrosser industrial PC that is used as
FW and VPN.
The issue with this hardware is that the debian stock kernel never worked
and I spent a lot of time finding the proper combination of legacy IDE
driver configuration, so that it can boot from a CF card.
In this context the ability to test debian kernel is not present.

I have a second device (with less RAM) as a spare that can be freely used
for testing.

>> While I agree that i386 kernel support should be phased out, and might
>> even need to be dropped altogether, I strongly disagree with the
>> original premise of this thread, that all i386 support should be dropped
>> for Bullseye.
> 
> I may be able to reassure you a bit there.  Someone pointing out that we
> don't have enough confirmed resources for a port happens semi-regularly,
> and the usual outcome is that enough resources step forward.  We're not
> very eager to drop things that people want to support.  The point is to
> prod people into stepping forward and volunteering for the things they
> care about.
> 
> What's perhaps more significant is that i386 is now getting to the point
> where it requires such prodding, instead of being an assumed default
> architecture.  That means that the folks who care about it should probably
> start thinking about building more organization and structure around the
> work, recruiting people, building a task list, and so forth, instead of
> just assuming "oh, everything will work on i386, it always has."
> Volunteering to do that sort of coordination is helpful even if you aren't
> debugging FTBFS problems.

Is it feasible to have the base system working as a priority, so that i386
is still available? The applications might be stripped down and people who
are affected should take action to test and get involved.

On my side I can offer conducting tests on the spare device - even more if
it can be automated in some way as I really do not have much time for big
tasks.

I was thinking of creating a local repository of the sources of the packages
I use and setup a build process, so that I can still update in future and
keep the system running. I really do not see why I should spent money on
new hardware - the advantages in my use case are not big doing so.
For example I payed for the Accrosser Geode devices about 250,- (US$) each.
Newer devices I looked last year and couple of months ago are >400.

Here is the list and except kernel all is debian stock. Of course I can
install more but the device is not a Porsche (500MHz with 128MB RAM) :)
It doesn't consume much power though - contrary to one i386 notebook that is
perfectly working, but I do not want to keep all the time powered on.


# dpkg --get-selections
acl                                             install
acpi                                            install
acpitool                                        install
adduser                                         install
apt                                             install
apt-utils                                       install
at                                              install
base-files                                      install
base-passwd                                     install
bash                                            install
bc                                              install
binutils                                        install
binutils-common:i386                            install
binutils-i686-linux-gnu                         install
borgbackup                                      install
bsd-mailx                                       install
bsdmainutils                                    install
bsdutils                                        install
busybox                                         install
bzip2                                           install
ca-certificates                                 install
chkrootkit                                      install
console-common                                  install
console-data                                    install
coreutils                                       install
cpio                                            install
cron                                            install
dash                                            install
debconf                                         install
debconf-i18n                                    install
debconf-utils                                   install
debian-archive-keyring                          install
debianutils                                     install
diffutils                                       install
dirmngr                                         install
dmsetup                                         install
dpkg                                            install
dselect                                         install
e2fslibs:i386                                   install
e2fsprogs                                       install
e2fsprogs-l10n                                  install
easy-rsa                                        install
ed                                              install
ethtool                                         install
fdisk                                           install
file                                            install
findutils                                       install
fuse                                            install
gcc-8-base:i386                                 install
gettext-base                                    install
gnupg                                           install
gnupg-agent                                     install
gnupg-l10n                                      install
gnupg-utils                                     install
gnutls-bin                                      install
gpg                                             install
gpg-agent                                       install
gpg-wks-client                                  install
gpg-wks-server                                  install
gpgconf                                         install
gpgsm                                           install
gpgv                                            install
grep                                            install
groff-base                                      install
grub-common                                     install
grub-legacy                                     install
grub-pc-bin                                     install
gzip                                            install
hostname                                        install
ifupdown                                        install
inetutils-syslogd                               install
init                                            install
init-system-helpers                             install
initramfs-tools                                 install
initramfs-tools-core                            install
initscripts                                     install
insserv                                         install
iperf                                           install
iproute2                                        install
iptables                                        install
iptraf                                          install
iptraf-ng                                       install
iputils-ping                                    install
isc-dhcp-client                                 install
isc-dhcp-common                                 install
kbd                                             install
keychain                                        install
klibc-utils                                     install
kmod                                            install
libacl1:i386                                    install
libapt-inst2.0:i386                             install
libapt-pkg5.0:i386                              install
libassuan0:i386                                 install
libatm1:i386                                    install
libattr1:i386                                   install
libaudit-common                                 install
libaudit1:i386                                  install
libb2-1                                         install
libbinutils:i386                                install
libblkid1:i386                                  install
libbsd0:i386                                    install
libbz2-1.0:i386                                 install
libc-bin                                        install
libc-l10n                                       install
libc6:i386                                      install
libcap-ng0:i386                                 install
libcap2:i386                                    install
libcap2-bin                                     install
libclass-isa-perl                               install
libcom-err2:i386                                install
libcomerr2:i386                                 install
libdaemon0:i386                                 install
libdb5.3:i386                                   install
libdbus-1-3:i386                                install
libdbus-glib-1-2:i386                           install
libdebconfclient0:i386                          install
libdevmapper1.02.1:i386                         install
libdns-export1104                               install
libedit2:i386                                   install
libefiboot1:i386                                install
libefivar1:i386                                 install
libelf1:i386                                    install
libevent-2.1-6:i386                             install
libexpat1:i386                                  install
libext2fs2:i386                                 install
libfdisk1:i386                                  install
libffi6:i386                                    install
libfl2:i386                                     install
libfreetype6:i386                               install
libfuse2:i386                                   install
libgcc1:i386                                    install
libgcrypt20:i386                                install
libgdbm-compat4:i386                            install
libgdbm6:i386                                   install
libglib2.0-0:i386                               install
libgmp10:i386                                   install
libgnutls-dane0:i386                            install
libgnutls30:i386                                install
libgomp1:i386                                   install
libgpg-error-l10n                               install
libgpg-error0:i386                              install
libgpm2:i386                                    install
libgssapi-krb5-2:i386                           install
libgssglue1:i386                                install
libhogweed4:i386                                install
libicu63:i386                                   install
libidn11:i386                                   install
libidn2-0:i386                                  install
libip4tc0:i386                                  install
libip6tc0:i386                                  install
libiptc0:i386                                   install
libisc-export1100:i386                          install
libjansson4:i386                                install
libk5crypto3:i386                               install
libkeyutils1:i386                               install
libklibc:i386                                   install
libkmod2:i386                                   install
libkrb5-3:i386                                  install
libkrb5support0:i386                            install
libksba8:i386                                   install
libldap-2.4-2:i386                              install
libldap-common                                  install
liblocale-gettext-perl                          install
liblockfile-bin                                 install
liblockfile1:i386                               install
liblz4-1:i386                                   install
liblzma5:i386                                   install
liblzo2-2:i386                                  install
libmagic-mgc                                    install
libmagic1:i386                                  install
libmnl0:i386                                    install
libmount1:i386                                  install
libmpdec2:i386                                  install
libncurses5:i386                                install
libncurses6:i386                                install
libncursesw5:i386                               install
libncursesw6:i386                               install
libnetfilter-conntrack3:i386                    install
libnetfilter-cthelper0:i386                     install
libnettle6:i386                                 install
libnfnetlink0:i386                              install
libnfsidmap2:i386                               install
libnftables0:i386                               install
libnftnl11:i386                                 install
libnpth0:i386                                   install
libopts25:i386                                  install
libp11-kit0:i386                                install
libpam-cap:i386                                 install
libpam-modules:i386                             install
libpam-modules-bin                              install
libpam-runtime                                  install
libpam-ssh                                      install
libpam-tmpdir                                   install
libpam0g:i386                                   install
libpcap0.8:i386                                 install
libpci3:i386                                    install
libpcre3:i386                                   install
libperl5.28:i386                                install
libpkcs11-helper1:i386                          install
libpng16-16:i386                                install
libpolkit-gobject-1-0:i386                      install
libpopt0:i386                                   install
libprocps7:i386                                 install
libpython-stdlib:i386                           install
libpython2-stdlib:i386                          install
libpython2.7-minimal:i386                       install
libpython2.7-stdlib:i386                        install
libpython3-stdlib:i386                          install
libpython3.7-minimal:i386                       install
libpython3.7-stdlib:i386                        install
libreadline7:i386                               install
libsasl2-2:i386                                 install
libsasl2-modules:i386                           install
libsasl2-modules-db:i386                        install
libseccomp2:i386                                install
libselinux1:i386                                install
libsemanage-common                              install
libsemanage1:i386                               install
libsepol1:i386                                  install
libslang2:i386                                  install
libsmartcols1:i386                              install
libsqlite3-0:i386                               install
libss2:i386                                     install
libssl1.1:i386                                  install
libstdc++5:i386                                 install
libstdc++6:i386                                 install
libswitch-perl                                  install
libsystemd0:i386                                install
libtasn1-6:i386                                 install
libtext-charwidth-perl                          install
libtext-iconv-perl                              install
libtext-wrapi18n-perl                           install
libtinfo5:i386                                  install
libtinfo6:i386                                  install
libuchardet0:i386                               install
libudev1:i386                                   install
libunbound8:i386                                install
libunicode-string-perl                          install
libunistring2:i386                              install
libusb-0.1-4:i386                               install
libustr-1.0-1:i386                              install
libuuid1:i386                                   install
libwrap0:i386                                   install
libxtables12:i386                               install
libzstd1:i386                                   install
linux-base                                      install
linux-image-4.19.25gx2                          install
linux-image-4.19.25gx2-deb10                    install
locales                                         install
login                                           install
logrotate                                       install
lrzsz                                           install
lsb-base                                        install
lzma                                            install
make                                            install
makedev                                         install
mawk                                            install
mbr                                             install
menu                                            install
mime-support                                    install
mingetty                                        install
minicom                                         install
mount                                           install
multiarch-support                               install
ncurses-base                                    install
ncurses-bin                                     install
ncurses-term                                    install
ne                                              install
ne-doc                                          install
net-tools                                       install
netbase                                         install
nftables                                        install
ntpdate                                         install
nvi                                             install
openssh-client                                  install
openssh-server                                  install
openssh-sftp-server                             install
openssl                                         install
openvpn                                         install
passwd                                          install
pciutils                                        install
perl                                            install
perl-base                                       install
perl-modules-5.28                               install
pigz                                            install
pinentry-curses                                 install
postfix                                         install
postfix-sqlite                                  install
procps                                          install
psmisc                                          install
python                                          install
python-minimal                                  install
python2                                         install
python2-minimal                                 install
python2.7                                       install
python2.7-minimal                               install
python3                                         install
python3-llfuse                                  install
python3-minimal                                 install
python3-msgpack                                 install
python3-pkg-resources                           install
python3.7                                       install
python3.7-minimal                               install
readline-common                                 install
resolvconf                                      install
sed                                             install
sensible-utils                                  install
shorewall                                       install
shorewall-core                                  install
ssh                                             install
ssl-cert                                        install
startpar                                        install
sudo                                            install
sysv-rc                                         install
sysvinit-core                                   install
sysvinit-utils                                  install
tar                                             install
tcpdump                                         install
traceroute                                      install
tzdata                                          install
ucf                                             install
udev                                            install
unzip                                           install
util-linux                                      install
xz-utils                                        install
zip                                             install
zlib1g:i386                                     install




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