Re: FW: Re: Release status of i386 for Bullseye and long term support for 3 years?
Hi Andrei,
thank you for posting on this very important topic.
I want to share my experience and view hoping that you draw some useful
conclusions and we can keep i386 in some way available.
Andrei POPESCU wrote:
[snip]
>
> My intuition is also that i386, although becoming less popular, was
> starting from such a huge install base that the resources are probably out
> there somewhere.
>
>> Further, unless "sudden death of most porters" can be added to the list
>> of bad events of 2020, I feel confident in saying that there are still
>> probably some more people who simply haven't gotten around to confirming
>> that they can be a porter.
>
> I agree. Most of my point is just that they should do that. :) Now's
> the time.
>
My use of i386 is on a geode based Accrosser industrial PC that is used as
FW and VPN.
The issue with this hardware is that the debian stock kernel never worked
and I spent a lot of time finding the proper combination of legacy IDE
driver configuration, so that it can boot from a CF card.
In this context the ability to test debian kernel is not present.
I have a second device (with less RAM) as a spare that can be freely used
for testing.
>> While I agree that i386 kernel support should be phased out, and might
>> even need to be dropped altogether, I strongly disagree with the
>> original premise of this thread, that all i386 support should be dropped
>> for Bullseye.
>
> I may be able to reassure you a bit there. Someone pointing out that we
> don't have enough confirmed resources for a port happens semi-regularly,
> and the usual outcome is that enough resources step forward. We're not
> very eager to drop things that people want to support. The point is to
> prod people into stepping forward and volunteering for the things they
> care about.
>
> What's perhaps more significant is that i386 is now getting to the point
> where it requires such prodding, instead of being an assumed default
> architecture. That means that the folks who care about it should probably
> start thinking about building more organization and structure around the
> work, recruiting people, building a task list, and so forth, instead of
> just assuming "oh, everything will work on i386, it always has."
> Volunteering to do that sort of coordination is helpful even if you aren't
> debugging FTBFS problems.
Is it feasible to have the base system working as a priority, so that i386
is still available? The applications might be stripped down and people who
are affected should take action to test and get involved.
On my side I can offer conducting tests on the spare device - even more if
it can be automated in some way as I really do not have much time for big
tasks.
I was thinking of creating a local repository of the sources of the packages
I use and setup a build process, so that I can still update in future and
keep the system running. I really do not see why I should spent money on
new hardware - the advantages in my use case are not big doing so.
For example I payed for the Accrosser Geode devices about 250,- (US$) each.
Newer devices I looked last year and couple of months ago are >400.
Here is the list and except kernel all is debian stock. Of course I can
install more but the device is not a Porsche (500MHz with 128MB RAM) :)
It doesn't consume much power though - contrary to one i386 notebook that is
perfectly working, but I do not want to keep all the time powered on.
# dpkg --get-selections
acl install
acpi install
acpitool install
adduser install
apt install
apt-utils install
at install
base-files install
base-passwd install
bash install
bc install
binutils install
binutils-common:i386 install
binutils-i686-linux-gnu install
borgbackup install
bsd-mailx install
bsdmainutils install
bsdutils install
busybox install
bzip2 install
ca-certificates install
chkrootkit install
console-common install
console-data install
coreutils install
cpio install
cron install
dash install
debconf install
debconf-i18n install
debconf-utils install
debian-archive-keyring install
debianutils install
diffutils install
dirmngr install
dmsetup install
dpkg install
dselect install
e2fslibs:i386 install
e2fsprogs install
e2fsprogs-l10n install
easy-rsa install
ed install
ethtool install
fdisk install
file install
findutils install
fuse install
gcc-8-base:i386 install
gettext-base install
gnupg install
gnupg-agent install
gnupg-l10n install
gnupg-utils install
gnutls-bin install
gpg install
gpg-agent install
gpg-wks-client install
gpg-wks-server install
gpgconf install
gpgsm install
gpgv install
grep install
groff-base install
grub-common install
grub-legacy install
grub-pc-bin install
gzip install
hostname install
ifupdown install
inetutils-syslogd install
init install
init-system-helpers install
initramfs-tools install
initramfs-tools-core install
initscripts install
insserv install
iperf install
iproute2 install
iptables install
iptraf install
iptraf-ng install
iputils-ping install
isc-dhcp-client install
isc-dhcp-common install
kbd install
keychain install
klibc-utils install
kmod install
libacl1:i386 install
libapt-inst2.0:i386 install
libapt-pkg5.0:i386 install
libassuan0:i386 install
libatm1:i386 install
libattr1:i386 install
libaudit-common install
libaudit1:i386 install
libb2-1 install
libbinutils:i386 install
libblkid1:i386 install
libbsd0:i386 install
libbz2-1.0:i386 install
libc-bin install
libc-l10n install
libc6:i386 install
libcap-ng0:i386 install
libcap2:i386 install
libcap2-bin install
libclass-isa-perl install
libcom-err2:i386 install
libcomerr2:i386 install
libdaemon0:i386 install
libdb5.3:i386 install
libdbus-1-3:i386 install
libdbus-glib-1-2:i386 install
libdebconfclient0:i386 install
libdevmapper1.02.1:i386 install
libdns-export1104 install
libedit2:i386 install
libefiboot1:i386 install
libefivar1:i386 install
libelf1:i386 install
libevent-2.1-6:i386 install
libexpat1:i386 install
libext2fs2:i386 install
libfdisk1:i386 install
libffi6:i386 install
libfl2:i386 install
libfreetype6:i386 install
libfuse2:i386 install
libgcc1:i386 install
libgcrypt20:i386 install
libgdbm-compat4:i386 install
libgdbm6:i386 install
libglib2.0-0:i386 install
libgmp10:i386 install
libgnutls-dane0:i386 install
libgnutls30:i386 install
libgomp1:i386 install
libgpg-error-l10n install
libgpg-error0:i386 install
libgpm2:i386 install
libgssapi-krb5-2:i386 install
libgssglue1:i386 install
libhogweed4:i386 install
libicu63:i386 install
libidn11:i386 install
libidn2-0:i386 install
libip4tc0:i386 install
libip6tc0:i386 install
libiptc0:i386 install
libisc-export1100:i386 install
libjansson4:i386 install
libk5crypto3:i386 install
libkeyutils1:i386 install
libklibc:i386 install
libkmod2:i386 install
libkrb5-3:i386 install
libkrb5support0:i386 install
libksba8:i386 install
libldap-2.4-2:i386 install
libldap-common install
liblocale-gettext-perl install
liblockfile-bin install
liblockfile1:i386 install
liblz4-1:i386 install
liblzma5:i386 install
liblzo2-2:i386 install
libmagic-mgc install
libmagic1:i386 install
libmnl0:i386 install
libmount1:i386 install
libmpdec2:i386 install
libncurses5:i386 install
libncurses6:i386 install
libncursesw5:i386 install
libncursesw6:i386 install
libnetfilter-conntrack3:i386 install
libnetfilter-cthelper0:i386 install
libnettle6:i386 install
libnfnetlink0:i386 install
libnfsidmap2:i386 install
libnftables0:i386 install
libnftnl11:i386 install
libnpth0:i386 install
libopts25:i386 install
libp11-kit0:i386 install
libpam-cap:i386 install
libpam-modules:i386 install
libpam-modules-bin install
libpam-runtime install
libpam-ssh install
libpam-tmpdir install
libpam0g:i386 install
libpcap0.8:i386 install
libpci3:i386 install
libpcre3:i386 install
libperl5.28:i386 install
libpkcs11-helper1:i386 install
libpng16-16:i386 install
libpolkit-gobject-1-0:i386 install
libpopt0:i386 install
libprocps7:i386 install
libpython-stdlib:i386 install
libpython2-stdlib:i386 install
libpython2.7-minimal:i386 install
libpython2.7-stdlib:i386 install
libpython3-stdlib:i386 install
libpython3.7-minimal:i386 install
libpython3.7-stdlib:i386 install
libreadline7:i386 install
libsasl2-2:i386 install
libsasl2-modules:i386 install
libsasl2-modules-db:i386 install
libseccomp2:i386 install
libselinux1:i386 install
libsemanage-common install
libsemanage1:i386 install
libsepol1:i386 install
libslang2:i386 install
libsmartcols1:i386 install
libsqlite3-0:i386 install
libss2:i386 install
libssl1.1:i386 install
libstdc++5:i386 install
libstdc++6:i386 install
libswitch-perl install
libsystemd0:i386 install
libtasn1-6:i386 install
libtext-charwidth-perl install
libtext-iconv-perl install
libtext-wrapi18n-perl install
libtinfo5:i386 install
libtinfo6:i386 install
libuchardet0:i386 install
libudev1:i386 install
libunbound8:i386 install
libunicode-string-perl install
libunistring2:i386 install
libusb-0.1-4:i386 install
libustr-1.0-1:i386 install
libuuid1:i386 install
libwrap0:i386 install
libxtables12:i386 install
libzstd1:i386 install
linux-base install
linux-image-4.19.25gx2 install
linux-image-4.19.25gx2-deb10 install
locales install
login install
logrotate install
lrzsz install
lsb-base install
lzma install
make install
makedev install
mawk install
mbr install
menu install
mime-support install
mingetty install
minicom install
mount install
multiarch-support install
ncurses-base install
ncurses-bin install
ncurses-term install
ne install
ne-doc install
net-tools install
netbase install
nftables install
ntpdate install
nvi install
openssh-client install
openssh-server install
openssh-sftp-server install
openssl install
openvpn install
passwd install
pciutils install
perl install
perl-base install
perl-modules-5.28 install
pigz install
pinentry-curses install
postfix install
postfix-sqlite install
procps install
psmisc install
python install
python-minimal install
python2 install
python2-minimal install
python2.7 install
python2.7-minimal install
python3 install
python3-llfuse install
python3-minimal install
python3-msgpack install
python3-pkg-resources install
python3.7 install
python3.7-minimal install
readline-common install
resolvconf install
sed install
sensible-utils install
shorewall install
shorewall-core install
ssh install
ssl-cert install
startpar install
sudo install
sysv-rc install
sysvinit-core install
sysvinit-utils install
tar install
tcpdump install
traceroute install
tzdata install
ucf install
udev install
unzip install
util-linux install
xz-utils install
zip install
zlib1g:i386 install
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