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Re: Default Debian install harassed me


On Wed, Oct 09, 2019 at 02:38:48PM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> > > > I really don't see anything I'd call "dependency hell" any more.
> > > > Perhaps it's because I experienced the real thing, or perhaps because I
> > > > don't use a DE.  
> > > 
> > > Try unistalling a DE, either in part or whole, to replace it with
> > > another and you'll end up with no xorg and all the stuff that goes with
> > > it, and all the apps that run under it. Quite a surprise.  
> > 
> > My experience tells me otherwise, but I know how to use apt-mark.
> The last time I tried unistalling a DE was 8 years ago.  Found no
> solution that wouldn't break or wipe out the system.  I don't even think
> apt-mark existed then.

Back then it was "apt-get install foo" for "apt-mark manual foo", and if
they had an equivalent of "apt-mark auto bar" I've never used it.

> Decided it was easier to do a clean install with
> the DE I wanted.  There wasn't enough room on the little 4GB SSD on an
> Asus eeePC 900 to install two.
> > > Dependency/Recommends have gotten to the point now of
> > > unnecessarily bloating a system with apps and utilities that
> > > aren't needed, not wanted, and will never be used.  
> > 
> > Some examples would be nice here.
> OK.  Install any DE and you'll likely get Firefox-ESR,

Hm. Let's see (buster, the current stable).

GNOME - 'nuf said.
MATE - yes, if you're installing Recommends.
KDE - no, but you get their version of kitchen sink.
XFCE - no, even if you count Suggests.
LXDE - yes, if you're installing Recommends.
LXQT -  yes, if you're installing Recommends.

Seems sane. Have I forgot any DE?

> Libreoffice,

Actually, no. You could count LXDE here, but you have to install

> all kinds of multimedia apps and utilities, etc., etc.

That's somewhat expected from a DE, but I get your point.

> > > That's why I begin all my installs with a terminal-only system and
> > > build it up piece by piece judiciously checking what gets installed.
> > > The result is a small,  
> > 
> > uname -m && du -sxh /usr
> On this my primary system?  Stretch amd64. /usr 4.0GB.

Main desktop - 3.2G in / (/var is a separate filesystem), every package
is hand-picked, installation is about 10 years old, multiple migrations,
one architecture change.
But - kid's desktop - 3.0G in / (/var is a separate filesystem), lxde
metapackage, fresh installation.

My point is - hand-picking packages has its fun, and a great way to pass
the time (and I do it too, occasionally). But once you know the *right*
metapackage, end result is nearly the same.

> I've done installs using the method mentioned above where the whole
> system was on a 4.0GB SSD and install only took 1.2GB including
> customized LXDE desktop and applications.  No swap.

They had localepurge even then. You could easily shave off extra
200-300M even in such conditions.


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