[Date Prev][Date Next] [Thread Prev][Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]

Re: Default Debian install harassed me

On Tue, Oct 08, 2019 at 11:21:26AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Oct 2019 12:44:32 -0500
> John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> wrote:
> > Patrick Bartek writes:
> > > They are each their own Hell.  Package management software solved,
> > > more or less, one type, but created another beast as the OP has
> > > discovered and that we each deal with in our own ways.  Such is life
> > > . . . and software  
> > 
> > The OP is in a hell of his own making (which is fine with me).  If he
> > wasn't such a dork he'd let Lxqt pull in Xarchiver, ignore it, and
> > install his choice of archiver.
> Unfortunately, it's the way dependencies have been implemented.

In this particular case, it's the way a metapackage have been
Dependencies by themselves are fine, but their usage in this case
(Depends instead of Recommends) is controversial.

In another words, do not blame the mechanism, blame the policy.

> One should be able to uninstall one thing without it trashing your whole
> system because of dependencies, Recommends, etc.

It's possible already, although it contradicts the purpose of
metapackages. First, you remove lxqt. Next, you apt-mark to manual all
its Depends and Recommends. Finally, you remove what you do not want.

And note, I did not imply that it's user-friendly in any way. And I
won't call it "simple" or "obvious".

> There should be a special switch: "uninstall only this, leave
> everything else, don't automatically install a replacement -- I'll do
> that." :)

There is no need for such switch as it's perfectly doable with stock apt
& dpkg. But since it falls into "creative Debian breakage" category, I
won't go into the details here.

> > I really don't see anything I'd call "dependency hell" any more.
> > Perhaps it's because I experienced the real thing, or perhaps because I
> > don't use a DE.
> Try unistalling a DE, either in part or whole, to replace it with
> another and you'll end up with no xorg and all the stuff that goes with
> it, and all the apps that run under it. Quite a surprise.

My experience tells me otherwise, but I know how to use apt-mark.

> Dependency/Recommends have gotten to the point now of
> unnecessarily bloating a system with apps and utilities that
> aren't needed, not wanted, and will never be used.

Some examples would be nice here.

> That's why I begin all my installs with a terminal-only system and
> build it up piece by piece judiciously checking what gets installed.
> The result is a small,

uname -m && du -sxh /usr

> fast, efficient set up with only what I want -- for the most part.

And that "part" that mars your perfect installation is?


Reply to: