On 09/23/2014 05:14 AM, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
So my challenge is to you: *Act* for change. Instead of just venting your frustration here, which will do nothing, absolutely and utterly nothing for any change! But basically the opposite, the more energy you put into venting engaging here in a ton of threads, the less energy you will have to bring forth change. I bet most of those here, who criticize systemd never ever have even *tried* to take any of this upstream. I am delighted to see any proof of that you did. Just really important: Watch your tone. If you are disrepectful, then chances are that you will be ignored. And IMHO *rightfully* so. Ciao,
My take is that this is not a problem with upstreams, including systemd. It's useless to bother upstreams with Debian's internal issues, which are centered around a growing dependency on Red Hat's one-size-fits-all business model, which could be a poison pill that kills Debian as collateral damage. In that sense maybe you could call it an "upstream" issue, but it's one that I suspect is particularly impervious to downstream feedback (except maybe from RHT shareholders).
The only realistic user option for the majority is to stop using. That exodus, as far as I can tell, has already started with the most technical users. They are glad to use hobby project software but don't have time to referee internet squabbles. Their main interest now will be to gauge risk going forward or just post out of curiosity to ask WTF is happening to Debian?
From my perspective the most important users in the server space and the mobile/embedded ARM space tend to think this not going well for Debian which was the underdog to begin with, but systemd is a big setback and will cause it to be dropped like a hot potato. I only have a small window to see through but have been watching closely for years. I am always looking for alternate options on this.
Debian use can make a difference, by exercising choice. For Debian users to make a difference, Debian has to fix Debian.