Re: engineering management practices and systemd (Re: Installing an Alternative Init?)
Le 16/11/2014 02:13, Ludovic Meyer a écrit :
> On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 10:05:49PM +0100, Erwan David wrote:
>> Le 15/11/2014 20:24, Brian a écrit :
>>> On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 11:37:14 -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote:
>>>
>>>> Brian wrote:
>>>>> On Sat 15 Nov 2014 at 13:49:18 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Vi, 14 nov 14, 08:04:00, Marty wrote:
>>>>>>> By the same token systemd is a major waste with no real gain. It duplicates
>>>>>>> equivalent modular alternatives, and also requires unnecessary effort to
>>>>>>> repair damage from excessive coupling.
>>>>>> I challenge you to come up with a configuration that duplicates
>>>>>> systemd's features with a combination of other software.
>>>> That assumes that one needs or wants systemd's features.
>>> I rather think Andrei might not regard this as answering his challenge.
>>> (You also didn't say whether the link's picture made you chuckle :) ).
>>>
>>>> For some (many?) of us, systemd represents no gain, and significant
>>>> operational impact (time required to deal with changes).
>>> Fair enough, but working within the realities of a situation is also
>>> part of the deal. The deal for Jessie is systemd. This is not on a take
>>> it or leave basis; quite a lot of work has been put into ensuring the
>>> alternatives you want are there.
>>
>> It isq : when you have bugs like
>> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=762623
>> Once said "oh it works with systemd", then no more activity on the bug,
>> nothing.
> I would suggest to read the url you post. There was a message from the
> maintainer saying "sorry, i tought I answered, I already reported it to
> udev, please give more information on the bug".
>
> Then indeed, you didn't followed up.
>
Sorry, I was not asked more precision since 2 days ago, and could not
answer right away.
>> That means that practically, systemd is de facto compulsory. Not the
>> default, the only way allowed.
>>
>> So it is take or leave.
> I think this conclusion is likely wrong and hasty, given the lack of
> activity is a result on waiting on more information from the reporter.
>
Reporter cannot give info if not asked to...
Moreover even when systemd is not pid 1, it must be used through logind,
pam, etc...
I cannot help more since I do not find any doc on debugging systemd
components, for people not knowng systemd internals.
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