Jochen Spieker wrote:
Dimitrios Chr. Ioannidis:after spending two days trying unsuccesfuly to have a usable Jessie with one of the defaults DE and with no systemd utilities, i decided the following. In the companie's pc's i support, i'll continue with Wheezy and if there is no a clear path to Jessie without a trace of systemd until Wheezy's support lifetime then bye - bye Debian.Good luck finding *any* distro with a current Gnome that does not depend on systemd.
As some of us continue to point out - a large component of Debian users do not care about what's on the desktop - because we run headless servers, and live at the command line.
I really don't get why Debian receives so much hate in this discussion. Upstream software depending on systemd is not Debian's choice.
This is not about upstream software developers deciding to use systemd, this is about a single, influential, upstream developer (Gnome) basically blackmailing distros into accepting systemd running as PID1 - by not doing what every other upstream developer has (and continues to do) - supporting the well established init system. (Any other uptream developers care to comment on this?).
We now have PID1 occupied by a piece of code who's prime developer wants to gobble up more and more functionality, and has written very publicly about all the ways he wants to fundamentally reshape Linux. Given that the kernel hands/off control of the system to PID1, he is now in a position to implement such fundamental change with impunity.
The Debian technical committee went along and took Ubuntu with it. Until this, Debian has been probably the cleanest of all distros when it comes to packaging (apt) and general architecture. For at least some of this, that decision is the first step on a road to the end of Linux as we know it.
IMHO, that requires serious, and continued dissent, as well as some righteous anger. The blind, fanboyish defense of systemd, by some, particularly when accompanied by derision of critics ('shut up,' 'go away'), even more so when taken to the level of trollish repetition, deserves far harsher responses.
Just one man's opinion, Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra