Re: Confusion

[Steve Litt <slitt@troubleshooters.com>]

On Thu, 08 May 2014 16:31:03 +0930
josh <josh@thefamousjoneses.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> When one has a problem with any GNU/Linux distribution and goes to the
> Internet for help, one is always a. assured that there is loads of
> help available and b. directed to a maze of mailing lists where any
> search immediately returns at least a million hits. 

True.

> This is certainly
> the case with Debian.
> 
> Worse, almost every entry in those lists refers to attempting to
> perform some complex technical activity, usually with a root
> terminal, and is studded with abstruse technical terms. Trying to
> read through even a subset of those entries, obtained by severely
> narrowing the search terms, takes hours. And narrowing the terms may
> just have excluded the only relevant entry.

That's true.

> 
> Look at my latest frustration:
> 
> I have downloaded 'wheezy' and created a CD from the Iso image. When I
> attempt to boot from the CD the screen image comes up, I respond to a
> few options, then the system reports unable to read from the CD -
> which it has, of course, been doing. 

:-)

IIRC I had that on Mandriva or Ubuntu in 2008. It was either a driver
issue or I had to tell the BIOS to allow "legacy" drive reading.

Which brings up an important point: The reason for mailing lists. In my
opinion, long before you've burned up several hours and maybe gotten in
a bad mood, you should ask for live help on a mailing list or IRC
channel. You've done your due diligence RTFM, something's wrong, and
you're perfectly within your rights to ask for help. If some RTFM
shouter insults you or points that to "let me google that for you",
ignore him, or if you can't, filter him. You've done your due
diligence.

Of course, you should read Eric Raymond's and Rick Moen's classic, "How
To Ask Questions The Smart Way" at
http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html, because asking your
question intelligently usually produces useful answers.

> 
> I have created a second CD - same problem. Downloaded the file again
> and used that to create a third CD - same problem. I have tried these
> CD's on two different machines, one of which faultlessly runs the
> current version of gnewsense and the other puppy linux. Same result.

The preceding paragraph describes good troubleshooting techniques. With
Linux, you need effective troubleshooting techniques because you can't
just pay the teenager across the street to fix it, like you
could for a Windows machine. If it's any consolation, actually
troubleshooting Windows problems is more difficult than troubleshooting
Linux problems.

You mention that they recommend doing stuff as root, at a terminal.
That's what troubleshooting is all about. One can't fix a problem until
he knows the root cause, and one needs diagnostic tests, usually from
the terminal and sometimes as root, to perform those diagnostic tests.
So those tests are just a part of the plan.

Disclaimer: I make my living teaching troubleshooting mindset and
methods.


> 
> This is such an elementary failure that it must be happening to lots
> of people. The CDs are all OK - I can open them, see their contents,
> unzip packages, read any readable files. My CD readers are obviously
> working just fine.
> 
> I have so far spent two days trying to find some reference to this
> problem in your lists.

You did too much RTFM, and if anyone insults you after you do even 1/10
of this level or RTFM, simply filter them out of your life. If you
can't understand it after a half hour of RTFM, ask for help on a list
or IRC channel.

> 
> Thank you for patiently reading this. My point is that I have a very
> basic problem that must be happening to dozens of other people, yet I
> am finding it impossible to discover the answer. And so must they be.
> 
> Is there any way to find the answers to simple, basic problems without
> becoming immersed in millions of abstruse technical queries by people
> who are doing something other than following the very basic
> installation installation steps given on your own website?

The preceding paragraph describes the exact reason for using a mailing
list such as this one.

> Am I missing something obvious here?

Yes.

1) Somebody responded to use the network install. Try that.

2) If it's old hardware, then somewhere around the time SATA replaced
PATA, there were bios and driver problems with CD/DVD drivers in Linux.
Often there's some sort of a compabibility or legacy setting for
drives, and that might fix it.

3) If the problem is the installer can't find a driver for the DVD it
just booted :-), then there's probably a procedure to deal with that.

4) As a diagnostic, boot an Xubuntu live CD on those computers, and see
whether or not they do the same thing. Either way, you've gained info
narrowing your search for the root cause scope.

5) If you've RTFMed for more than 30 minutes, and you're starting to
get mad, ask on a list or IRC channel, but make sure your frustration
doesn't show in your post.

6) Both Troubleshooting and Rapid Learning techniques, (disclaimer I
have books on both) are vital in maintaining your own Linux machines.

7) Once you get used to Linux, you'll find it 10 times less of a
maintenance hassle than Windows.

HTH,

SteveT

Steve Litt                *  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance