Re: What CDs and DVDs should we produce for lenny?
my mistake forwarding to list
--- joseph lockhart <jwl_andlovesaidno@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
> --- Anthony Towns <aj@azure.humbug.org.au> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 01:39:40PM +0000, Steve
> > McIntyre wrote:
> > > [ /me sets the Reply-To: to debian-cd again... ]
> >
> > But not Mail-Followup-To:...
> >
> > > >At a bare minimum:
> > - installer - downloadable (business card)
> > - installer+base - downloadable (netinst)
> > > > - CD - disk 1 downloadable, disk 2+ jigdo-only
> > > > - DVD - disk 1 downloadable, disk 2+
> jigdo-only
> > > > - BD - one image jigdo-only
> > > >That's 25MB + 650MB + 4GB of images per-arch,
> for
> > about 61GB in total,
> > > >plus a whole bunch of jigdo images (about
> 500?).
> >
> > So more like 25 + 150 + 650 + 4000 = 4825 per
> arch,
> > for about 63GB in
> > total. Either way.
> >
> > > >Is it possible to create a jigdo image without
> > creating the full
> > > >ISO? ie, to go from a list of files you want on
> > the ISO straight to a
> > > >jigdo template without the intervening step of
> > actually copying all the
> > > >files around?
> > > Oh, absolutely. That's one of the biggest
> changes
> > I made in
> > > debian-cd/mkisofs to improve performance.
> > However... if we want to
> > > continue providing torrent downloads (which are
> > very popular, I
> > > understand) then we do still need to make the
> full
> > images too.
> >
> > So, there's three user scenarios, I guess:
> >
> > - great network access, download everything
> > directly (netinst
> > gets the process started quickest, and
> > downloading everything
> > is fine)
> >
> > - good network access but don't want to download
> > debs multiple
> > times, or want to download in bulk in advance
> > (run a proxy or
> > mirror; or download DVD/CD images, and use
> them)
> >
> > - bad network access (buy/download everything on
> > DVD/CD/BD and use
> > it to install, or populate a local mirror)
> >
> > And there's four ways we can get debs to people:
> >
> > - regular archive (apt, netinst, jigdo)
> > - raw images (download via cd mirrors)
> > - torrented images (download via cd torrents)
> > - vendors burn images and mail them to people
> >
> > If you're buying/mailing images, it's out of our
> > hands, provided vendors
> > can get images in the first place, so ignore that.
> > Our regular archive
> > is already mostly optimised, so the more people
> > using it, the better;
> > that's just a matter of more jigdo use, afaics.
> >
> > That leaves us with torrent and http iso
> downloaders
> > -- possible lots or
> > possibly not too many depending on whether we can
> > make jigdo any easier.
> > But I don't think there's any way to avoid that,
> > it's just a question
> > of how many, isn't it?
> >
> > I guess there's an inequality like:
> >
> > images on mirrors <= images on torrents <= images
> > via jigdo
> >
> > And images on torrents = images you have to
> > generate. And the inequalities
> > go the other way too:
> >
> > ease of downloading >= ease of torrenting >= ease
> > of jigdoing
> >
> > and the real question is where you say "if you
> > really want the 23rd CD
> > for mipsel, you're probably smart/dedicated enough
> > to use jigdo".
> >
> > The other thing we /could/ do is encourage people
> > who've done successful
> > Debian installs to help contribute by
> participating
> > in a torrent after
> > the fact -- you could do all sorts of things like
> > have a FUSE filesystem
> > that takes a (partial) mirror and a jigdo file and
> > lets you see fake iso
> > files, which you then seed via bittorrent, eg. You
> > could automate that,
> > so it's just a question like the popcon one: "Do
> you
> > wish to participate
> > as a torrent seed for other people installing
> > Debian? Yes [No]"
> >
> > Another option would be a jigdo firefox plugin --
> > even if a pure
> > javascript jigdo turns out too hard, a plugin
> ought
> > to be pretty
> > easy. Otherwise there's Java potentially, but at
> > that point you start
> > getting into OS-specific scenarios, and worrying
> > about ActiveX or .NET
> > and installers or whatever, at which point things
> > get too hard. :-/
> >
> > I guess another option would be to have a virtual
> > appliance that will
> > do all the jigdo stuff for you by running a cut
> down
> > Debian in a virtual
> > machine (vmplayer, qemu, etc) and generating the
> > isos for you.
> >
> > Hrm. In the real world, does jigdo actually
> saturate
> > broadband bandwidth?
> > It's been a long time since I've tried it, but I
> > vaguely remember it
> > not actually being very speedy. Ah, it was the
> "stop
> > downloading, add
> > files to image" that used to slow things down, but
> > seem less of an issue
> > now. The repeated wgets probably still aren't
> great
> > for that matter,
> > since it serialises downloading and establishing
> > connections.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > aj
> >
> >
> perhaps a method of creating custom disks on
> download
> would work, some sort of task select (based on cdd i
> suppose) that allows the use of jigdo to pull in the
> packages desired, so user A wants kde with opera no
> problem, user B wants fluxbox with opera, and user C
> wants to go without X but have mySQL and Samba, or
> whatever. perhaps nested menues (similar to the
> ncurses form of aptitude) to select items and then a
> custom jigdo image(s) is created. the lib files and
> dependences need not be addressed by the user (just
> have them pulled in like aptitude does).
>
> this is just thinking off of my head, but I think
> that
> it would be a step beyond other distros. for newbies
> a
> standard install disk (like now or three gnome, KDE,
> and xfce), and the ever important netinst disk
>
> jwlockhart
>
> Registered Linux User #458799
> Registered Kubuntu User #19678
> this user is penguin powered
>
>
>
>
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>
jwlockhart
Registered Linux User #458799
Registered Kubuntu User #19678
this user is penguin powered
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