Re: a dumb query? pls humor me
On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 21:27:32 -0400, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote in
[🔎] 20070406012732.GA3919@santiago.connexer.com:
> On Thu, Apr 05, 2007 at 10:53:31PM +0000, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
>> On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:33:28 -0700, zfh wrote in
>> [🔎] 360937.25915.qm@web83205.mail.mud.yahoo.com:
>>
>>
>> > Sorry to break into your offtopic rants, but I can't resist this one.
>> > Under the Geneva Conventions, enemy combatants that wear no uniforms
>> > and
>>
>> ..like the passengers onboard flight UA93 on 9/11?
>>
> ...who were civilians acting in self-defense?
>
>> > commit acts of murder and sabotage are considered to be spies and may
>> > be
>>
>> ..you speak of murderers, saboteurs and spies, who may only be shot
>> after having received a verdict so ordering in a trial for the
>> murderer, and in an Article 90 hearing _and_ a trial for the saboteur
>> and the spy. The latter 2 generally need to commit some war crime to
>> earn a verdict, but can still be held as POW for the duration of the
>> war without committing any war crimes, read especially the commentary
>> to Article 46 for background:
>> http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/WebART/470-750056?OpenDocument
>> http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/COM/470-750056?OpenDocument
>>
>>
> They can be held as POWs, but the right of communication can be witheld
> (GC IV, Art 5):
>
> Where in the territory of a Party to the conflict, the latter is
> satisfied that an individual protected person is definitely suspected
> of or engaged in activities hostile to the security of the State, such
> individual person shall not be entitled to claim such rights and
> privileges under the present Convention as would, if exercised in the
> favour of such individual person, be prejudicial to the security of
> such State.
>
> Where in occupied territory an individual protected person is detained
> as a spy or saboteur, or as a person under definite suspicion of
> activity hostile to the security of the Occupying Power, such person
> shall, in those cases where absolute military security so requires, be
> regarded as having forfeited rights of communication under the present
> Convention.
>
> In each case, such persons shall nevertheless be treated with humanity
> and, in case of trial, shall not be deprived of the rights of fair and
> regular trial prescribed by the present Convention. They shall also be
> granted the full rights and privileges of a protected person under the
> present Convention at the earliest date consistent with the security
> of the State or Occupying Power, as the case may be.
..interesting, here you use Art. 5 to argue Hezbollah's case against the
2 captured IDF officers, and against Israeli corporal Ghilad and in favor
of whoever holds him. I would have checked the commentary to verify
whether such an interesting angle can be taken as valid: ;o)
http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/COM/380-600008?OpenDocument
http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/WebART/380-600008?OpenDocument
> It seems, like the prisoners at Gitmo *are* being held in accordance
> with the GC (less the isolated cases of guards acting in contravention
> to the other GC protections).
..you 'n "Toby" do similar bible reading? ;o)
Generally, when in doubt of your understanding and interpretation of a
Geneva Convention article, consult its commentary and whatever the
commentary cites, such as the Protocol Additional I articles and their
commentaries, there _has_ been changes to the original 1949 Conventions,
such as banning mercenarism and adding to the commanders responsibilities.
..for further court martial litigation advice, hire me or a lawyer.
>> > Al Queda and the Taliban don't care about anyones rights or freedoms.
>> > We need to follow the rules because we are who we are and need to
>> > stay that way if free nations are to survive. Though there have been
>> > some abuses, military tribunals and Gitmo are not necessarily outside
>> > the rules when dealing with an organized terrorist threat.
>>
>> ..really? ;o) They are. On one line:
>> http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/ihl-article-300906?
>> opendocument
>>
> Umm. That document is an article about International Humanitarian Law.
> It mentions nothing of tribunals.
..correct, it concerns their _relevancy_, and the relevancy of proper
treatment of POW's and Article 90 tribunal procedings is just one part of
this. Read it, instead of just pasting stuff blindly.
Also read:
>> ..a good starting point for further reading:
>> http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/htmlall/section_ihl_in_brief?
>> OpenDocument
>>
--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
Scenarios always come in sets of three:
best case, worst case, and just in case.
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