Re: Booting Debian/testing fails
On Sun, Feb 04, 2007 at 10:07:07AM -0500, Michael Pobega wrote:
> Chris Bannister wrote:
> >On Fri, Feb 02, 2007 at 03:40:24PM -0500, Douglas Allan Tutty wrote:
> >>On Fri, Feb 02, 2007 at 10:04:00AM -0800, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> >>
> >>>I'm curious. I've thought back over this thread and can't recall
> >>>(without digging through the archives) what happened here that might
> >>>have provoked this sort of response.
> >>I think that some of the problem may be a function of becoming, dare I
> >>say it, main stream? It used to be, people would just do windows since
> >>to them it was the only OS and it came with the box (so why change).
> >>Now people, for a variety of reasons (macs change archetecture, problems
> >>with constantly paying for new MS stuff, whatever), people who before
> >>wouldn't consider a *N*X are doing so. And they're not prepared.
> >>
> >>They may never have installed an OS before. They figure, get the CD,
> >>pop it in, click OK, and its done. They're not hackers. They've never
> >>even opened their boxes. They think a "hard drive" is the whole case
> >>sitting on the floor. When their expectations aren't realized, they
> >>get:
> >> frustrated: what's going on?
> >> scared: I need the computer for work tomorrow. Now what?
> >>Debian Stable doesn't work with their newer hardware. They're scared of
> >>something called 'testing'.
> >>
> >>I think that we need a big "NEW to UNIX-Like Operating Systems like
> >>Debian?" button on the front page of the web site. It could take them
> >>to a short introduction about what *N*X is like, and how to get
> >>documentation and support.
> >
> >Personally, I don't think that Debian is geared towards newbies but more
> >towards admins and people who seem to know what they are doing. Hence
> >the formation of Kantonix, Mepis, Ubuntu, and others *based* on Debian.
> >
> I would already consider Ubuntu the "Debian
> for-complete-computer-newbies". Ubuntu is easy to set up, has all the
> positives of Debian (apt, .deb files, pretty stable base) without most
> of the cons (Long release span, bad hardware support on "Stable"
> *because* of the lone release span).
>
> Debian is really not for computer newbies though. It's for people with
> some experience, even just dabbling in Linux. Newbies /should/ in my
> opinion lean towards Ubuntu, their forums are huge, support is pretty
> good, and you'll rarely not get an answer to "newbish" questions (i.e.
> "What's the difference between FAT32 and Ext3?", or things along those
> lines).
>
> Usually when someone is using Debian you assume they have some
> Linux/computer knowledge, because if they don't they'll be lost. This is
> the reason _why_ people like Mark Shuttleworth formed _their_ Debian
> derivative. My dad's a complete Win32 freak, but even he can maintain
> his Ubuntu system on his external HDD (I told him to give it a shot,
> after the whole Vista fiasco).
>
Only one of my computers (the newest) meets the hardware requirements of
Ubuntu. My parents are quite old. I couldn't give them any of my old
computers with a CD of ubuntu and say "go for it". Most of the people I
know, and most of the charities I know, don't own computers that would
work. Then again, I don't know if my 486 with 32 MB ram and 850 MB
drive will work with Etch either. So none of the people I know who may
want to: browse the internet, do email, make a banner, or keep a mailing
list, could do it with ubuntu.
I would like to have, but haven't found, a document that I could give to
such people, with a Debian CD1, that would take a person who thinks the
box on the floor is the "hard drive", to a point where they can do the
stuff they want and properly administer their box.
Perhaps once Etch is stable (Sarge wouldn't install on the 486), I'll
get use CD1 and document the process of installing on the 486 and write
it up.
Doug.
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