Re: Package management questions
On Tue, Nov 28, 2006 at 10:50:32AM -0500, Matthew Krauss wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I've followed every thread on this list about these programs, and not
> seen these issues really addressed. I was wondering if anyone would
> care to clarify (from an objective, non-cheerleader stance) the
> differences between aptitude and apt-get.
>
> I understand that aptitude has a "smarter" ability to remove
> dependencies that are no longer needed. That's great, but we all know
> sometimes when a program tries to be to "smart" it can be trouble.
> Every time I try to use aptitude, it tries to rip out half my system.
>
> In another thread (I've lost track of it now), someone said something to
> the effect that aptitude is the new standard. Is that true? Is this an
> actual change in Debian standards? If so, why does Etch currently set
> you up with update-notifier and Synaptic, which as I understand, are
> more in line with the apt-get way of doing things?
>
> There are, I understand, problems that come up when you mix apt-get with
> aptitude. Does switching to aptitude preclude using those graphical
> tools? I love the command line and am probably comfortable with it to
> an extent that some would find unsettling, but update-notifier and
> synaptic are examples of fantastic GUI programs that I would not want to
> give up. Whats more, when teaching a newbie, it's great to be able to
> say "see, here is this nice icon that pops up and tells you when there
> are new updates available, and here is the program you can use to find
> and install new programs. Everything is in one place, and it is MUCH
> easier then Windows."
>
> Can anyone clear this up?
>
As far as what is the 'standard' package manager, there's no mention in
the Policy manual, the installation manual mentions apt-get and
aptitude. When you turn to the debian-reference, it discusses dpkg,
apt, apt-get, and aptitude. It gives an overview of the advantages of
aptitude in 6.2.3
As far as having aptitude try to rip out half your system, the problem
is when you __start__ by using aptitude as a drop-in replacement for
apt-get. Once you have aptitude set up (via the interactive screens)
you can do this but until you do, it can go a little crazy.
When you start the aptitude UI for the first time, set your options so
that it doesn't automatically install suggests or recommends (when you
go to do something, there will be a list of suggested and recommended
packages) but to fix broken dependencies. Then go down the list of
installed packages: anything that you __want__ installed have nothing
beside the name, anything that you don't want unless its needed for
dependencies, have an 'A' beside the name. Use 'm' and 'M' to toggle
this. Obviously this is easiest just after a minimal install so there
are fewer installed packages. Once this is done, its the last time you
have to worry about this.
When you hit 'g' for go, aptitude tells you what it wants to do. You
can then fine-tune this list and either cancel or tell it to go ahead.
This prevents it's smarts from outsmarting you.
Whatever tool you use, you should only use one tool for actually
managing your packages since the different tools can't compare notes.
Use the other tools for their searchig or presentation but stick to one
for installation and removal.
As far as finding out when new packages are available, either use
cron-apt to get an email or use the aptitude UI, hit 'u' to update the
available packages, then look under the 'new packages' entry.
Everything is in one place in the aptitude UI.
I installed Etch recently and I didn't get update-notifier (I don't
think) or synaptic. Personally, I would not rely on a GUI to manage my
packages: what happens when something breaks X? I'm a great believer
in the 'command-line of last result' a.k.a. having a getty run on a
serial port. I can't run synaptic from the console.
I'll be interested to see what others present.
Doug.
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