Re: Proposed change for subscriptions...
On Sunday 12 March 2006 14:44, Steve Lamb wrote:
> Hal Vaughan said:
> > What concerns me is that Steve has some good points, but Anand is
> > too busy being right to listen. (I have to admit, Steve has been
> > rather strong in voicing his complaints.)
>
> I admit I react poorly to certain behaviors. I am sorry for that
> and do try to reign myself in. Sometimes I succeed, sometimes I
> don't.
But the fact that you see an error and work to correct it is good. You
have a good point here, and it is important that the point you are
making is not overshadowed by anything else. Just as with Anand's
responses. What he says would stand better on its own if it were not
attached to comments like threats to unsubscribe you and, "If you don't
like it, leave." My understanding is that Debian, as a project, is
somewhat of a democracy. Anyone who understands a democracy knows that
one of its strengths is that those who disagree with how it is run need
to have a voice because that dissent forces those in power to listen
and, in doing so, create a stronger solution other than just one that
pleases most of the people. That a list manager can threaten to
unsubscribe a person and say, "If you don't like it, you can leave,"
disturbs me. It is antithetical to what I understand Debian is
supposed to be. I hope he is merely having a really bad day.
...
> > It would also be possible to add to the
> > mail list manager a routine that detects e-mail from
> > non-subscribers. I know challenge-response tactics aren't always
> > popular, but something like that could be set up so a newbie can
> > ask a question without joining and crap is still filtered.
>
> I don't think C-R is as shunned when it comes to web forms.
> Besides one could do the common practice of "enter this code" with a
> graphic next to it which is designed to prevent machine-reading for
> automatic posting. Most web forums do this. Furthermore one could
> also make such CGI posts include a boilerplate request at the end,
> "This request came from the d.o help CGI, please CC the author to
> ensure they will recieve a copy of your response."
That's a good point. I don't know if C-R is needed for a web form, but
could (and imho should) be implemented for any emails to the list that
aren't from regular subscribers.
> > It seems to me a
> > challenge-response request is a fair price to pay if one wants help
> > but does not want to subscribe.
>
> Don't we have C-R on this list now in the form of the
> confirmation letter for subscription? Been years since I've gone
> through the process so I might be misremembering.
For subscription, I think there is. But it would seem a small price to
pay to get help for those who don't want to subscribe. Especially if
the text was worded politely to make it clear it is protecting
thousands of people from extra spam and yada yada yada....
Hal
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