Re: newbies needing help for graphic login
On Friday 06 January 2006 02:41 pm, Andrew Sackville-West wrote:
> On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 20:46:18 +0000
>
> Clive Menzies <clive@clivemenzies.co.uk> wrote:
> > On (06/01/06 12:18), Andy Streich wrote:
> > > I really appreciate this topic and am delighted to see experienced
> > > Debian users responding positively to the "help, help" emails.
> > > Andrew's question is the critical one: is Debian for newbies or not?
> > > From my own experience over the last couple of years I'd say it is not
> > > -- unless the newbie has strong technical skills and lots and lots of
> > > time to read manuals and this email list and getting the system
> > > up-and-running quickly is not critical. Without a prior Unix/Linux
> > > background or the dedicated help of a local expert, you have to
> > > approach Debian at the very least as a time consuming, very technical
> > > hobby.
> >
> > I disagree about strong technical skills but you need some time and
> > motivation to learn. The 'new' sarge installer it is a lot easier
> > than installing woody.
>
> Clive & Andy,
>
> I agree with Andy, that it is at least time consuming, and for a total
> linux newbie, would be daunting if not impossible. I agree that Debian CAN
> be newb-friendly, but I don't think it necessarily needs to be. I think the
> derivative distros cover that pretty well. I look at them as
> gateway-distros, once you're hooked...
> [snip]
Again, Andrew, you've put your finger on it. If the Debian-Way is to serve
advanced users, at least it's a clear, definitive approach. I'd only ask
that it be clearly labeled as such in the What Is Debian and Getting Started
sections of the www.debian.org home page.
But, as you say, Debian can be newbie-friendly. So why not make it so?
My story:
I kind of grew up with Unix on a VAX in the 1980s. Then my career led me to
into Windows for a decade before, of all things, bringing me into Sun
Microsystems developing JavaCard in one of only two groups using Windows
boxes in a company dedicated to Solaris. (Drivers for smart cards then were
only available for Windows.) When I finally had the professional and
personal freedom to delve into GNU/Linux the first challenge was to pick a
distro -- from more than 100 possibilities! That is the first problem a
newbie faces and in itself a reason to stick with a Win or Mac box. I chose
Debian for its open source community philosophy and reputation for
robustness, luckily just after the new installer appeared.
As I installed Debian on a few, very different, machines I thought it was a
wonderful experience -- for me. Because I've been involved in rolling out a
number of commercial products and the user feedback that entails, I couldn't
help but think of the more typical user experience and what a nightmare it
might be.
As a true believer in FLOSS to me Debian is a sort of a cornerstone of that
approach. The multiplicity of distros is a good thing -- but not in and of
itself -- only if the lessons learned are rolled back into Debian. Having
gone from 100 to 1000 distros by 2010 would not be a win. A win will be
having Debian incorporating the advances made in the distros it has spawned.
IMO the current situation -- raw newbies should start with Ubuntu, for example
-- is a temporary holding pattern. Who wants to be told Debian is too
advanced for you, install Ubuntu (again, as an example), use it for a while,
then wipe that out and install Debian when you've learned your way around?
Especially when it's all about factoring software and writing good
installers. It's not about changes in the operating system but in system
configuration. That speaks to installer evolution and system configuration
management rather than distro multiplicity.
With all that said, how does one discover/influence the roadmap for Debian?
Andy
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