Re: debian vs ubuntu and knoppix

[Alvin Oga <aoga@mail.Linux-Consulting.com>]

hi ya steve

relax .. have a beer... i agree

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005, Steve C. Lamb wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 11, 2005 at 09:02:56PM -0700, Alvin Oga wrote:
> > just because you disagree doesn't mean you are right and i am wrong
> 
>     You're right.  Just because I disagree doesn't make me right and you
> wrong.  What makes me right and you wrong is the fact that I checked my
> sources (Ubuntu's page), cited said source, and provided the reason why my
> position is the correct one which also proves your position is completely
> wrong.
> 
>     According to Ubuntu's own page the distribution is free.  It is as free as
> Debian itself is.  The onus of proof for their position is on you.

okay... i'll partially retract the comment about "ubuntu is
commercialized"

	- it is commercialized, in my view, because they provide support
	for $$$$ and is NOT free
		( support for $$$ is a good thing 
		and if you don't like their support pkg, you can get
		support elsewhere

		- if i cn buy a ubuntu distro at the local pc stores,
		it's commercialized regardless of what the site says
		( but i do have to go see if i can find it again at
		( fries - palo alto store

	- it is NOT commercialized if you cannot buy the pre-packaged
	CD's at the regular stores, but i could have and still would have
	sworn i saw ubuntu at the local stores packaged in its fancy boxes

	  i'm not talking about the $5 cd from the various "cheap cd"
	  places for the convenience of not downloading thru bittorent in 
	  ubuntu's case

> > - and ubuntu does and always have promoted themself as commercial ...
> >   commercial support as their primary business
> 
>     Which is a far cry from "the commercialization of Debian".

if i remember right, that was one of their initial motivations,
differences and distinctions ... but things can change ..

------------

something else they need to fix/cleanup ..

http://www.ubuntu.com/download/

ubuntu> Ubuntu Linux is easy to download. You can download a CD image and
ubuntu> burn it yourself using a CD writer, or order a pressed CD from us.
ubuntu> For a limited time we will send CDs to you at no cost, too.

which to mean implies they charge $$$ for their cd... and yet they also
say the cd's is free ...

	- i do not normally go poking around at all the web pages
	for any distro ... and do usually read the first few lines
	and their boldface makes it ez to scan to get the "basic idea"

	- the free cd's is sent out by canonical in 4-6 weeks, long
	wait and a patience test

	- canonical also promised to deliver hundreds of CD to the
	linux picnic that never arrived

	- their "free cd" requires you to provide with email and passwd
		https://shipit.ubuntu.com/

		( that is not free in my book, to be picky about it )

		- i do expect to give them a shipping address to 
		receive the free cd, not an email address

------------

doesn't GPL also state that you must distribute/release source code
of the binaries ?? ( not just the binaries )

	- another area where its flame bait

	- ubuntu says they won't send you the sources on their free cd
	(http://www.ubuntu.com/download/support/documentation/faq/shipit)
		- that is very bad in my book 


>     No, more like it next to impossible to get Debian to stick to a release
> schedule. 

anybody that does software and qa knows that sometimes release schedules
will be a moving target

c ya
alvin
k