Re: Debian Compatable UPS?
hi ya hmh
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Oct 2005, Alvin Oga wrote:
> >
> > like all things ...
> > - some folks can do it in 5 min ... some takes 5 hrs
>
> Don't give me that. I *know* how to do it,
didnt mean *you* ... just a general comment ... some folks will
take longer to figure it out
> The magic powder can be *very* expensive, even if you already are a wizard
> with a good magic wand.
or buy themagic powder and pixie dust that comes wiht the bozo that
will install it in 5min .. or 5hr .. whatever the budget allows for
vs 5days if one were to do it oneself
> > - knowing which screws to turn will costs $100/hr as the saying
> > goes (the home car mechanic vs certified(nutcases) at the dealers)
>
> I am a certified(nutcase) when it comes to UPSes by your definition, I
> suppose. I am an electrical engineer (fully certified) after all...
in that definition ... i meant the engineers that work on ups
exclusively at apc, powerware, liberts, etc, etc.. and do nothing but
those ups
i think lots o people in the list have a degree and/or other
certifications which may or may not help resolving ups connection
and reliability issues let alone which one to get
> > some of my el cheapo consumer stuff is still working after 8hrs ...
>
> I will suppose you meant 8 years, not 8 hours.
hehehe .... another booboo
> Lucky you. You have good batteries on that one, write down their model and
> manufacturer to get more of the same kind later.
the client has bad power ... they're moving to a new location
there is no one good ups for all situations, they are all good to the
extent of what you're willing to pay for and get or not get
or what you think you need ...
- i just won't be using (any) apc's or buying it anymore
other than yet another experiment to see that it lasts
as long as it claims to work
they are all bad for things that may or may not be an issue for you
that is not what i'm willing to pay for ... when there's other solutions
and vendors
> If you have a decent UPS, *it* will turn the machine back on later, after
> main power returns and it has charged the batteries enough.
if a machine goes down ... personally, i want it to stay down
as thre is not thing that critical that it needs to come up in
5min after a 3min blackout... only to go down again in 30sec
and this time not have enuff to to have recharged the battery
power failures may or may not come in multiple surges and blackouts
> Depeds on whether people are doing stupid things on the shutdown scripts,
you'd be surprised what people do to it ... or not do to it
> It could be a good UPS breaking down, as well... but this should indeed be
> rare.
that's my point ... most ups's dont break down ... for the same
$$$ spent ... with few exceptions, that some folks think is the normal
thing, when its not compared to other vendors and options
> I would NEVER recommend anyone to buy a US$ 10 surge protector and believe
> they are even remotely safe from lightning damage because of that US$10
> gadget...
didnt say that either ...
protect against lightening is not the same as protect against
brownouts and is NOT the same as protect against power failrue for 5 min
vs protect against power failure for 5hrs ... etc..etc..
> If you have no real lightning protection (e.g. you live in a house), and
> want it, you need a valid configuration made of stuff like this:
> http://www.citelprotection.com/citel/AC_EL.htm
to protect against lightening is non-trivial and having installed
a gizmo doesnt mean its safe if all other things like grounding,
wiring, fuses, breakers, loads and other stuff needs to be also
"designed" to survive whatever it is one is trying to protect against
home users ... they usually do not pay real $$$ to have certified
crazies to come in and fix things up ...
> > and for good high end ups .. powerware/lieberts are better
>
> Agreed. The big Powerware units are the best you can get for datacenter-
> grade UPS around here, AFAIK.
yup... and not much more $$$ than the crappy name brand fancy color red
brochures you see :-)
- you're paying for fancy brochures and pr and ads or you can
buy other name-brand stuff that doesnt need to "advertise"
> And the capacitive coupling for redundant
> units is very nice, not to mention the fact that they have proper battery
> control (I don't buy into their marketing that they are the only ones to do
> so, though :-P ).
there's probably few others ... in between high-end ups for business
vs big toys at data centers where licensed contractors is required to
touch it
> You *do* pay for the quality though. I had a quote of about US$ 25k for a
> 60kVA unit about an year ago (here in Brazil).
sao paulo or rio ... or ipannema ??... :-)
> > in 90% of the cases, i'd avoid the $200 - $1500 ups market
> > if it's my pesonal nickel to spend
> > - for $1000 ... i can have 2-3 identical complete systems
> > ( $80 mb, $80 cpu, $40 disks, ... to protect data )
>
> <shrug> That wouldn't work for me. If you need it online while you're out,
yeah.. depends on what one is willing to do ..
- how much $$$ does the company lose if the power goes out for a day
or an hour
- why do they need "me" to come in if the power goes out .. vs waiting
till power comes back ..
- things will always break when *one* is away on vacation ...
- if its important enough to be up 24x7 ... they'd have the budget
for it and contingency plan and tested out of the gazoo
- i'd worry more about data loss ... no data... no company .. no jobbie
and there have been few companies that shutdown because they had no
backups which i use as examples as why they need to do backups no matter
how trivial the backups may seem to be and what it is that is covered
and what you'e stuck living with ... ( acts of nature vs a big boo-boo
at the local power transfer station that took out LA for 1/2 day )
c ya
alvin
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