Re: What's wrong with debian?
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005, Eric Gaumer wrote:
> Nothing comes cost free. Debian does a very good job of providing three
> stable pools of software to pull from (yes three). In the end, it's your
> talent that dictates which one you will use. If they (Debian) rushed
> things out the door or made haste decisions then people would complain
> about bugs. They take the time to "get it right" but people complain
> things move to slowly. Bottom is you can't please everyone.
Hi Eric. I respect this opinion and agree with most of what you say but I
believe there is still a lot of flexibility in release schedules if the
aims of the project are kept in check.
What sort of problems are being encountered that a freeze can't happen
after 6 or even 12 months? OSS packages get released so fast that many
versions pass by (and are dropped into Testing) while the testing is going
on. I think it would be better to aim to freeze with an earlier version
of each package and reduce the work load for the release. Bugs are fixed
in versions of a package which end up getting replaced by a later version
long before the code freeze.
A faster release cycle could still achieve the high standards of the
existing Debian releases if the aims for each release were small. If the
problem is the new installer or something else about the internal workings
of Debian it would still be possible to settle on specific source versions
for the final release packages.
When I posted I was sure someone would respond with an arguments like "the
developers aren't paid" or "managing a project this size is hard". Both
are true but neither is sufficient reason for me or anyone else not to try
to offer constructive criticism to make Debian better.
IMHO if anything is a threat to the future of Debian as a successful
project it is the slow release cycle. Right now people are leaving it in
droves. I know, I'm seeing it all time. The reason is always the same -
the packages in Stable are too old. Some people will return but others
will not.
For the first time ever I can see a future time when Debian is less
successful than it is now. I do not want this to happen.
I take your point about being able to manage Sarge to produce a stable
outcome but the method you propose requires much higher administrative
overhead. Individual users may not have the resources to do what you
suggest. Companies like yours and mine do, but to be quite honest we have
more important things to do like getting quotes out or doing work on
client sites. I'm sure this is true for your people also. We do run a
lot of Woody boxes internally but when we're needing something more up to
date we're running Suse or another distro. We also run some FreeBSD boxes.
For me the allure of Debian has been that I can apt-get update && apt-get
upgrade without significant fear of a problem. This is something that for
a long time was almost unknown on other distros and OSes. Others are
catching up. Using Sarge at the cost of having to watch updates closely
is not something we're prepared to put the time into.
> It does me no good to complain about why newer packages aren't
> available. I get paid to make things happen and I appreciate all the
> work the Debian maintainers do to make my life easier so the least I
> could do is handle certain issues on my own. Isn't that what open source
> is all about?
There are many ways to contribute to OSS.
The only reason I am posting into this thread is because I see a problem
with an otherwise fantastic distro. It happens that many others are
voicing exactly the same problem. I am trying to offer constructive
criticism. The responses are similar to those given when this has been
raised in the past. I hope Debian picks up the cycle a bit otherwise I
think it will be less successful in the future and this will be a terrible
shame.
> Sorry... didn't mean to ramble. I just wish everyone would redirect
> their angst of releasing Sarge toward helping it's release rather
I'm not angry. I haven't seen a single post in this thread so far
indicating anyone else is either. I honestly think there is a real
problem. If we don't talk about it then it will not get addressed.
Anyway, I've said my piece so I'll gracefully drop out of the discussion
at this point and go back to doing some work :)
Rob
--
Robert Brockway B.Sc.
Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd.
Phone: 416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway@opentrend.net http://www.opentrend.net
OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.
Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org)
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