AW: branding debian releases
Look guys,
I think we're talking on different subjects here.... I'm talking about
getting newbies into Linux, especially Debian. And if you tell me that it
can't get more popular with a nice installer, well, erm, I dunno what else
to say, I'm stunned!?! And if you then tell me it would make no sense to
divide Debian into a workstation part and into a more special enterprise or
server version to make it even more visible to users, well then I scratch my
head in disbelieve.
And I don'T say DO IT NOW, I'm more like "Ever had a thought about it?"....
thats what discussions are for :-)
>
> :-) The "old crap" really flies on new hardware, this is the
> same as having
> faster CPU's and loading the latest M$ OS that requires more
> resources...
>
Huh, I'm talking about installation NOT the OS itself, pls. read more
careful :-) And as much as I hate M$ the installer is pretty nice. Much
easier to handle and better to get along with then the debian installer. XP
is neat, doesn't take that long and you have all the drivers you need, even
for older crap. The system itself is a pile of crap indeed, takes up lots of
mem, yes. Well, I installed more systems with Windows, but that doesn't mean
I can't get along with other stuff, at least I managed to get more then 15
machines running with Debian. But my first installtion was a mess and I was
sweating the whole day long.
>
> Wrong in what way?? I always found dselect very straightforward..
> Select a package, read the description and choose to install
> it or not .. it
> automatically tells you if there are
> dependencies and resolves them for you. Nice and simple.
>
Really? I may be not so sophistacted but I have had it with dselect after 15
minutes, I've even wrote down the keys, but this is not straight forward.
Dselect is very confusing................ and ugly looking. The explanation
a mess in my eyes.
>
> But I don't have a mouse on my headless servers... :-)
>
See here we go again, I'm talking about MAINSTREAM, not server
administrators. I also have about 15 systems here running debian on them, no
mice, no keyboard, no monitor, no x, nothing........just plain console and
ssh ;)
> To be honest I don't use Tasksel either ... I also do the
> basic install then
> dselect or apt-get (depending on what I am installing). But
> I don't see it
> being a problem.
>
Yeah, if you google around for about half an hour, here we go again. There'S
not even a hint in the isntaller that something like aptitude can be used,
isn't even installed by default if you install x, as far as I know? So how
can that be userfriendly and helping and convincing people to use debian?
And that'S what I also meant when I told you about Suse and RH, on the right
side you always have info WHATs happening WHAT you are doing.
>
> ..install a basic system (< 10 mins) then apt-get install apache! :-)
>
Well after 15 installations okay, but the first time I installed,
reinstalled, reinstalled and reinstalled, I don'T like it when I'm "not in
charge" @ inst time. I'd like to get more info from the inst routine.
>
> My wife managed to install Debian, and she is not the most
> computer literate
> person around...she likes to play Majong and a few other
> things, writes the
> odd letter etc. - doesn't know about the internals, just a
> regular user.
>
Okay then your wife's more clever then me, the first time I tried to isntall
my "workstation" I had to use 2 days to get X running. Never used X before,
or only from a SuSe or RH Inst. and they worked the very first time my
system fired up.
>
> I believe it is ... I can install a fully functional debian
> system in less
> time than a Windows 2000 one.
> All hardware detected and running, no extrenous crap to
> remove - no constant
> reboots for each security update - the list goes on!
>
Here we are again YOU, yes but an average user? I still doubt that, sorry!
And I had no sound in my X, I had no | becuase it wouldn't select my keymap,
I dunno where this is helpful?
>
> Just because the installer is prettier, doesn't make it better..
> I have installed SUSE 9 today, yes it looks good - but I
> don't need a GUI to
> install an OS.
That's okay so ....... *laugh*. Personally yes I think it's more comfortable
to do 200 klicks when the system is capable to do so, then e.g. writing down
the help page from dselect.
> I agree that some people may be initially disorientated when
> presented with
> a console screen for installation, but then I think we have
> been spoilt by
> fancy graphics, mice and windows! :-)
>
Aha, gotcha Pete :-) Nice to see that you at least agree a bit *giggle*. But
why are you so negative about it? Sounds you prefer riding a horse rather
then a car, if the comparison is not too much out of the way :-)
Isn't it a good thing to have a workstation with an X-Server, a mouse and
fancy gfx? I like to have an evironement where I feel at home. And before
you reply I say YES this is nothing for servers. Eats up mem, X can be
dangerous, isn't safe in some environments. Try to step out of your view and
be more global. I know it's a hard thing to do, but it helps understanding
lots of people on this list who might ask "stupid" questions.
> This, like so many other things, comes down to personal
> choice I guess - and
> right now there is no choice. Having said that, one of the reasons I
> initially chose Debian was that the installation was clean
> and simple! Goes
> to show how much attitudes towards this sort of thing have
> changed over the
> past few years.
>
I've choosen Debian because I've been told it's the most stable and safe
distribution around. I mainly use it for apache, typo3 recnetly, samba and
stuff like that, and I don't fear using a console. And I also think that
Debian is superb and I will continue using it in the future, whether there
will be a new installer or not.
But still I wish "the Debian guys" would be more like a company, just a
little bit. A good installer would do some good marketing and would help
newbies to get along quickly and smooth, what's wrong with that?
And Anthony, I don't want to be a smart ass or moaner, I can give you some
of my resources, why not? But I don't think that I'm the right person to do
an installer, maybe write down the concept, heck why not? Tell me when and
where and I'll help.
Greets,
Simmel
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