Re: OT: behaviour (was: Re: ps - complete username)
>Also, how many of us have actually donated to Debian? So, the point,
>about casting a 'bad light' on Debian isn't really valid at all -- at
>least in my view. If you're not paying, you don't complain. That's the
>way I was brought up.
Wouldn't You think, the time, I spend here on the list answering postings(more
recently) and helping people offline to get their debian systems running is
no donation (at least of time) to the debian project?
I think, Your attitude is quite common in the linux and unix world as a relict
of some former times, where people could be standing there, preteding they
were gods and tell anyone trying to get access to their knowledge "work for
it or go to hell". That has changed.
Almost every family has its own computer and although no one (except those
lindows guys) is aiming to bring linux to all of them. But still, the overall
goal is to increase the userbase.
Just to shortly sum up something rather obvious, increased userbase =
increased chance of someone contributing software and als = increased chance
of money donation.
>Stop being such pussies. We are lucky that folks like S.Keeling and
>others, lend their experience to the list, and bother to answer any
>questions. I've had a lot of help from people on this list. As it was
>pointed out, the OP, didn't even subscribe to the list -- man that shows
>some committment, eh? I found man pages difficult to read at first, but
>heck after a while, and enough reminders to read them, I actually enjoy
>them. I now find myself upset, when a software app, doesn't provide one.
Yes, You're right, we have to be grateful for anyone contributing and helping.
We should however redefine the success of helping someone. Assume that I get
a complete "piss-off" posting containing the answer, what do You think, the
mood will be, I'm in? How likely do You think I'm just about to swipe my disk
and put back windows on it (assuming I'm a switcher) or purging debian and
getting to SuSE or someone else?
Assuming I got a real nice posting, suggesting hints in the right direction,
maybe none of the hints lead to anything, but at least I get the intention, I
was being helped not insulted, what do You think my attitude towards debian
(or linux in general) is then?
>I'm wondering, if the influx of people from RedHat, are the ones, so
>used to having their hands held?
I've used RedHat for about two days in my life on my home computer (not being
happy with the structure of /etc then) and around 2 months to half a year
SuSE. Apart from that and some trials, I've always stuck to debian.
(Just if You ask about my record)
>Again, there is no PR argument, vis-a-vis having Debian in a so-called
>postive light from this list alone. Debian's PR and reputation is in the
>quality of the software and the excellent package mgmt tools.
>
>That's the way I see it...
That's the way (as I tried to point out above) it WAS, not it IS. Some years
ago, where I live there were hardware shops with the same attitude. At first
this was ok, as we, the customers, where afraid, going there like going to
church, no eyecontact with the gods, being glad to be yelled at, waiting for
abolution for our sins.
That has changed and almost all these shops have died because of a lack of
customers. The last ones, that still exist, do so, because they changed their
attitude.
This kind of user attitude is now swapping over to the linux community. You
can either be the though guy, telling anyone to whine their way back to linux
or try to respect this. As I mentioned earlier, no one is forced to answer
any particular question here. When I see questions, asking for something I
consider "common knowledge" sometimes I get quite annoyed myself, so i
*delete* the message and do not answer them in a way, that could be
considered impolite.
Often enough I've asked questions in the years behind. Often enough I got
answers like "sorry, don't know the solution, but I'm feeling with You" (more
or less) and these actually made me feel better, made me look again and not
only once made me spot my mistake.
js
--
Slang is language that takes off its coat, spits on its hands, and goes to
work.
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