OT: behaviour (was: Re: ps - complete username)
Hallo,
although I'm not involved, I was mentally going over the idea of writing back,
I would like to share some thoughts.
>Instead of thinking of it as hostile (I didn't see it that way), think
>of it as a pointer in the right direction. I.e. the info *is* in the man
>page, read carefully.
Yes, You're right, it could be seen as a hint like "You don't waste Your time
looking for the hint". Ever searched for something (info or physically) and
not found it? I for myself sometimes (esp. when I'm in a hurry) get quite
mad. The more I get mad, the less I'm able to read concentrated in a
(sometimes cryptically written) man page. So, this hint might be sent with
good intention, I would take it differently.
Especially as this is a non-standard question, the solution is not THAT
obvious and I think, You could spend some time honestly researching without
getting a result.
>> I normally don't get in a tizzy about such postings, but somehow today,
>> this is just offensive. This list, although not a "Friendly and Helpful
>> Customer Service desk", should be a place to help other users, not
>> offend them and insult their intelligence and prod them along by giving
>> cryptic hints so that they can figure it out themselves.
>
>I don't consider "read carefully" cryptic. It is also appropriate to
>"read carefully" and come back to the list with, "Okay I read carefully,
>but I'm still missing it. Could you give me an example?"
The default should be (and in some cases is) that the man page has been read,
the archives have been searched. The original poster did include info, he
searched through the man page with no result.
>>
>> I urge members of this list to adopt a "Customer Service" attitude. Yes,
>> the same questions get asked over and over, and yes, some questioners
>
>Keep in mind, one can *always* purchase customer support from
>knowledgeable people. Then I would agree one has higher level of
>expectations regarding service. People new to Debian/Linux are also
>*strongly* encouraged to check out linux user groups in their area
>(probably any university will have one).
There is this list regarding debian specific information. It's my free will to
take some time every day going through posts and looking ffor some, I could
answer. No one forces me to do so. So, if I'm doing, I'm representing the
debian community. Like it or not, this list "is" debian for some people -
that is, their perception of debian is dselect + this help. What impression
does it make if such answers happen more often? You (I know, it wasn't You)
don't have to post here, it's Your will but if You choose to do so, alway
remember, You're representing the debian community to someone asking a
question.
In general that behaviour (I tend to call it self-righteous and arrogant) is
it, what makes it so damn hard to communicate to windows using people why
linux isn't that bad after all ("but as soon as You ask a question, You're
doomed").
Many people don't know there are LUGs and some just want to get an idea of
Linux without immediatly spending money. Again, no one is forced to answer
any posting here.
>> are obviously not bright enough to run Debian, and yes, it takes more
>> work on your part, but that's no excuse not to be friendly and courteous
>> and helpful. Be an adult!
>
>I could choose to take that as an insult, but I choose not to. (I'm in a
>pretty good mood today:) Besides, I'm commenting inside your <rant>.
I think, the basic idea of the poster You're quoting was, an answer that might
imply "You're to stupid to use debian" is worse than no answer at all.
>> For example, instead of saying "Check the archives then", I believe a
>> better response would have been something like "No offense intended, but
>> the more proper behavior is for you to conform to the standard practice
>> of checking the archives in a situation like this rather than expecting
>> this list to conform to your wishes. You can find the March archives at
>> "http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2004/debian-user-200403/threads.html";.
>>
>> Yes, it takes more work on your part, but it sure makes Debian look
>> better than the terse response does.
>
>Also, remember that the first few times reading man pages, references,
>etc. will be harder. Soon you will become more accustomed to how things
>are written, and get more familiar with the terminology.
I think the one, You're quoting here has some 5 years Debian experience (at
least he wrote that). I would guess, he is quite familiar, so I think, I am.
But there are days, when I'm in a hurry and have no time to look through a
complete man page, that could be long enough to be handy as a hammer, once
printed out. And sometimes, You can read two or three times through such
monster pages and still get no clue where in this thing Your answer is.
>>
>> It doesn't require much more work, still informs the OP that the
> ^^^^
>That assumes the person had the time to give. Maybe s/he was just off
>to a meeting, but popped off a quick reply to try to help?
Again, an unhelpful posting, that might be considered aggressive, arrogant or
something like that is worse for the image, this list creates than no answer
at all. If You've no time to answer, simply don't do it.
>I understand that sometimes people are rude. (Have you never been
>rude?) That doesn't mean the recipient of the rudeness can't reply
>with something along the line of "I wasn't trying to be annoying,
>I have been trying to work this out, I looked at your reference
>but I'm still unable to understand it, etc., but I still need help."
>
>In general, asking again *politely* (and acknowledging that you did
>*try* to understand the response), works well. And keep in mind
>sometimes individuals burn out on a topic they have seen 100 times. This
>is often the source of rudeness, remember that.
If I'm already annoyed because I asked a question, helping me to get the
mission critical server running again that has already been down for much too
long and I get rude posting, what do You think is the way, I react?
(Obviously not the case here)
If I'm a Linux newbie that already has used all insults I know against my
machine, linux and the goddamn friend, persuading me to switch, how do You
think, I'll react to a rude posting?
Many of the postings here come out of desperation and urgent need for help
(even if one might not see the urgency of the question).
One last time, You're not forced to answer any posting, if You do and You can
help (or even get a little bit positive feelingback to the questioner), it's
a good thing.
If all You want to achive is "to show the rooky what hard people sit on this
side of the line" I don't know whether this creates the image of linux (and
in this case debian) we would like to see.
js
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