Re: Differences in RH Fedora coming from Debian
On Fri, Jan 16, 2004 at 03:07:48AM -0600, Alex Malinovich wrote:
> On Thu, 2004-01-15 at 14:11, Paul Morgan wrote:
> > On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 03:19:54 -0600, Alex Malinovich wrote:
> >
> > > I'm taking a class this semester which is all about installing and using
> > > Linux. After talking with the professor on Tuesday, I've learned a few
> > > details. First, I have to use Vulgarly Illogical for my text editor for
> > > the purposes of labs, tests, etc. As illustrated by the previous
> > > sentence, I'm an emacs user. :) I'm not happy about it, but I'm not
> > > against learning vi in the event that some day I am banished to a hell
> > > where there is no emacs. :) The other problem, however, is what the
> > > subject deals with.
> >
> > Firstly, you are not going to make many friends by dissing what many
> > long-time Unix programmers regard as the best test editor going. So you
> > can pretty much assume, as a result, that at least 50% of vi geeks are not
> > going to be prepared to help you out, including me.
>
I am guessing that everyone is talking about vim and not vi. I am using
both vim and emacs about equally since each one of them has its
advantages. vi (not vim) I haven't fully figured out yet. Mostly the
part about deleting text (the backspace functionality), and while I am
on the subject I'll be happy if someone could drop me a hint.
While you can get by with knowing only vim or only emacs, it will be
hard without knowing vi, as minimal systems will usually only have that
(or nano iirc) if at all. For example when installing a new system (had
to do several of those lately) I will usually install only the basic
woody system and them fix apt settings before I install the rest. vi is
the about the only tool thats similar enough to a widely used editor (vim)
for that so that I don't have to learn a new one.
> I suppose that in the future I will have to make a mental note that two
> smileys in a paragraph are not enough to signify a joke. I tend to find
> the whole emacs vs. vi debate rather comical, and have no problems
> taking a friendly jab at vi and always enjoy a good laugh at the expense
> of emacs. If this offends you, I'm terribly sorry. Perhaps "find /
> -iname "sense of humor"" might be useful in this situation. :) <- Note
> the smiley. Joke. Ha ha.
>
> > > We're going to be working on Fedora systems. What's sickening, is that
> > > the reason I was given for using Fedora was because it was 'free' since
> > > we have a CONTRACT with Red Hat. Apparently, free as in speech Debian
> > > isn't free enough for them? :) While I have gotten permission from the
> > > professor to use my laptop (with Debian on it) for the class, I'll still
> > > be responsible for knowing the Fedora way of doing things for purposes
> > > of the hands-on midterm and final.
> >
You can actually learn quite a bit by trying another distribution
(although an rpm could maybe teach you more in this case).
Although each distribution has its own differences, by just trying two
that differ enough would give you some idea on how different
distributions and unixes differ, so that when you have to work on the
next one you will have an easier time (will greatly help you when you
get around to a job that won't let you install debian over their
red-hat/Suse/etc., or even for embedded systems).
> > If one of the objectives of the class is to work with a Fedora system,
> > then the only thing that's sickening, as far as I can see, is that you
> > consider your opinion on Linux distributions to be more "correct" than
> > your professor's, even if it may disadvantage you in the class.
>
> I'm really beginning to regret having written this paragraph. But, once
> again, to reiterate here, the 'sickening' bit is a reference to the
> school's ignorance of all things Linux. There was no evaluation process
> for which distro to use for the class based on what would be the best
> educational tool. Instead, since the university had a support contract
> with Red Hat, they decided to use Fedora because, as far as they know,
> Red Hat _IS_ Linux. I hope that's the last time I have to say this. I
> really do, from the bottom of my heart, apologize to anyone I pissed off
> due to what is, apparently, a poor choice of words in expressing an
> opinion.
>
Actually if the university has a support contract with red hat can mean
that it is actually a lot cheaper for the university to use fedora in
this case.
Consider the fact that from my experience the university support
usually don't know linux that well. Also, if they have a contract
with red hat then thats what they have experience with, which means
that if (and more probably when) they need to give the students some
support they will have an easier time with it and they have a number
they can call for things they don't know.
If they need to learn the differences with debian in order to give the
students support its going to take man hours, which means money.
Besides, I am guessing that however is giving the course has
experience with linux, or they wouldn't give the course, and they
probably have experience with fedora or they wouldn't have chosen that
distribution. Why should you be the one not to switch distribution when
its not you giving the course. You want your professor to be able to
answer the questions, right ?
> > You expect the good people of this list to spend a not inconsiderable
> > amount of time to help you out for free, simply because you are too
> > stubborn to meet your own class requirements?
>
> See above. For what it's worth, in my two years of being a regular on
> this list, I and many others have helped many people with many more
> 'useless' things without thinking twice.
>
If you have been subscribed to the list for two years you should know
by now that flame wars is something to be very careful about (they are
easily started but not easily ended).
> > Try asking on a RedHat list. Then you can piss off both vi users and RH
> > admins all at the same time.
>
> See above reference to proper usage of the 'find' command. It really
> comes in handy in situations like this. :) <- Once again. Smiley. Joke.
> Ha ha. Funny. Etc, etc, etc, ad nauseaum. Need I go on? :)
>
The cynical tone is not helping your point.
> --
> Alex Malinovich
> Support Free Software, delete your Windows partition TODAY!
> Encrypted mail preferred. You can get my public key from any of the
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>
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