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Re: unsubscribe

Following is what I typically send (off-list) to 'unsub' messages on
list.  Been off a few days...

on Wed, Dec 31, 2003 at 11:50:16AM -0700, castf@shaw.ca (castf@shaw.ca) wrote:
> unsubscribe
> how mane times do I have to send this email.
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-request@lists.debian.org 
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org

If you're having problems unsubscribing from a debian mailing list.
First step:  keep a record of what you've attempted and what is or is
not working.

Note that I'm just another list member, not an official member of
Debian.org.  This message does not reflect any official viewpoint or
policy of Debian or Software in the Public Interest.

  - *READ THE FOOTER*  There are simple unsubscription instructions on
    every mail that gets sent to the list.  Follow these directions.
    Note that if your email address or delivery has changed, this may
    not work.  Most lists have a similar informational message.

  - *IF THIS DOESN'T WORK*:  Go to the online list unsubscription page
    at http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/unsubscribe  Check off the
    lists you want to unsubscribe from, AND supply your email address.
    You will be sent a confirmation email (this protects you from being
    unsubscribed, against your will, by a third party).

  - If you are still receiving list mail, send a message to
    listmaster@debian.org.  Note that Debian is a volunteer
    organization, and it can take a while for your mail to be responded
    to.  Allow a day or two.  There have been historic issues with
    people not getting appropriate response in a short period, please
    bear with us.

If  *** ALL ***  of these attempts are unsuccessful, send a post to
the mailing list with the following information.  This may not get
you unsubscribed (assume the listmaster is not subscribed to the
list in question), but it may give other people information which can
be helpful in identifying your problem:

  - Steps you've taken to unsubscribe.  There are far too many
    unsubscribe posts sent to list by those who simply fail to read
    instructions.  These tend to be poorly received by regulars (if not
    simply automatically deleted).

  - Responses, messages, error output, or anything else you've
    received in response to your attempts to unsubscribe.

  - Email headers from your list mail.  There's a chance you're
    getting mail forwarded from an old address, that your mail is
    being rewritten by your ISP's or company's email system, or that
    you're being sent mail by way of a relay operated by a third
    CAN DO TO HELP YOU.  You will have to take up the issue with the
    third-party relay, or block mail from this source to your address.

    A sample of email headers are included at the end of this message.

Some additional considerations as you try to get unsubscribed:

  - As stated, Debian's a volunteer organization.  It tends to work
    well, though some things are occasionally slow.  List
    unsubscriptions have been a noted issue over the years.  This mail
    is one attempt to clarify the issue.

  - Try to get yourself unsubscribed following directions *first*.
    There's little anyone on list can do other than give advice, and
    most of that advice is in this email.

  - Provide relevant information if you're posting to list.

  - Behave professionally.  The importance of this cannot be overstated.
    At the very least, expect to find yourself permanently banned from
    the list you're abusive to, if not others.  Past episodes of abusive
    or outrageous behavior have resulted in censure by ISP, loss of ISP
    accounts, loss of jobs, academic discipline (in the case of
    university accounts), etc.  One notorious example includes a
    Psychology PhD. formerly engaged in research at Princeton
    University.  His outburst resulted in email notifications to the
    Princeton's IT staff, his boss, the University President, and former

    Similarly, threatening lawsuits, DMCA takedown requests, and other
    legal maneuvers are likely to result in your email address being
    added to ban lists on other email lists.  

    An additional note on DMCA takedowns:  you can add the
    "X-No-Archive: Yes" header to your email to prevent it from being
    included in (many) Net archives.  Of course, those who feel that
    participation in a mailing list inherently dictates that the
    participation be public can add a filter rule to delete posts with
    such headers from their mailboxes.  This is a quid pro quo exchange,
    and insisting on privacy in an inherently public exchange is a
    violation of norms to some.  The header is also no protection
    against your post, email address, etc., from being quoted in

    Most Internet groups are small, essentially volunteer organizations,
    with few resources against a fight.  It's far easier to avoid the
    issue by barring participation from those who demonstrate they
    cannot participate reasonably.

    Note that the Internet has a memory that's both wide and deep.  In
    its own way, it's a very karmic place.

Email headers will look something like the following.  

Refer to your email software documentation for how you can display and
save headers.  The sample below shows that my system
(ganymede.tranquility.lan) received mail from localhost, via
netcom.com's POP server, from debian.org, originally from cwctv.net.
Given that this is how I'd expect my mail to receive, it matches
expectations.  Note also that the headers include several "List-*:"
lines with information on the list and unsubscribing.

    Received: from mail by ganymede.tranquillity.lan with spam-scanned
            (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 19JddZ-0005ms-00
	    for <karsten@localhost>; Sat, 24 May 2003 19:21:00 +0100
    Received: from localhost ([])
	    by ganymede.tranquillity.lan with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian))
	    id 19JddV-0005mc-01
	    for <karsten@localhost>; Sat, 24 May 2003 19:20:54 +0100
    Status: U
    Received: from popd.ix.netcom.com []
	    by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11)
	    for karsten@localhost (single-drop); Sat, 24 May 2003 19:20:53 +0100
    Received: from murphy.debian.org ([])
	    by killdeer (EarthLink SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 19jDzmwC3NZFlr0
	    for <kmself@ix.netcom.com>; Sat, 24 May 2003 11:16:36 -0700 (PDT)
    Received: from localhost (localhost [])
	    by murphy.debian.org (Postfix) with QMQP
	    id 94FDD1F68E; Sat, 24 May 2003 13:15:27 -0500 (CDT)
    Old-Return-Path: <Hell.Surfers@cwctv.net>
    Received: from smtp.cwctv.net (smtp-outbound.cwctv.net [])
	    by murphy.debian.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 218F01F4B8
	    for <debian-user@lists.debian.org>; Sat, 24 May 2003 12:56:48 -0500
    Received: from cwctv.net ([]) by smtp.cwctv.net  with Microsoft
	     Sat, 24 May 2003 18:57:19 +0100
    From: Hell.Surfers@cwctv.net
    To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
    Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 18:56:47 +0100
    Subject: Resistance Is Futile.
    MIME-Version: 1.0
    X-Mailer: Liberate TVMail 2.6
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
    Message-ID: <01d391957171853DTVMAIL6@smtp.cwctv.net>
    Resent-Message-ID: <HxdJIC.A.LAE.-a7z-@murphy>
    Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org
    X-Mailing-List: <debian-user@lists.debian.org> archive/latest/281359
    X-Loop: debian-user@lists.debian.org
    List-Post: <mailto:debian-user@lists.debian.org>
    List-Help: <mailto:debian-user-request@lists.debian.org?subject=help>
    List-Subscribe: <mailto:debian-user-request@lists.debian.org?subject=subscribe>
    Precedence: list
    Resent-Sender: debian-user-request@lists.debian.org
    Resent-Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 13:15:27 -0500 (CDT)

Thank you.

Karsten M. Self <kmself@ix.netcom.com>        http://kmself.home.netcom.com/
 What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
    Erin Joyce:  can't get the story right, won't correct it

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