Re: Install Report from a Linux newbie - some comments
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Replying with CC since I'm not sure if Eric is still subscribed.
Eric: You might want to subscribe to debian-boot and repost your
experience there; be sure to reference this thread by subject -boot
folks can find the user discussion.
On Sun, Nov 16, 2003 at 09:06:21AM -0800, eric brown wrote:
> I tough of posting my Linux experience as a complete
> Linux & Unix newbie that chose Debian to start playing
> with linux. (out of laziness and pure ignorance - I
> wanted to do a net install instead of waiting for
> entire cds iso to download and had no clue that Debian
> was an "hard distro")
Roughly my experience in 1997, except I couldn't go the CD route and I
was pre-apt...apt really moved the focus of the "distro war" to
package management on a *big* level (since Debian had already won the
"most complete" DSW years before).
> My first try: sarge & new installer
>
> The new one is real simple to use but it scared the
> hell out of me: after installing x the only thing my
> sceen could display was: "warning sync error will shut
> down in 5 sec"
That's a normal function of the monitor if it's not getting a usable
signal (in this case, getting a signal that would take your monitor
out of range). Sometimes switching video modes sends a out of synch
signal for a moment.
Your monitor at least tells you what's going on: Imagine my surprise
the first time I booted with this monitor (after reconfiguring X for
the new monitor)...and it says "Starting XDM..." and my monitor shuts
off. Fortunately, geek instinct got the better of me: I didn't smell
anything burning, so I gave it a moment, and the monitor came back on
and drew the XDM login page.
> But, after rebooting, magic, tadam!, I was welcomed by
> KDM! still didn't figure out what happened.
Woot! Autodetected everything OK?
> I managed to got everything net installed by
> configuring pppoeconf right at the very beginning (and
> played for the first time with apt, wget and lynx).
> After choosing a rather random selection containing
> gnome and KDE with taskel, I never managed to get my
> dsl connection to work again (yes I was loggin as
> root, rebooted etc...)!!! After intense googling with
> my powerbook (I was installing linux on an old Aptiva
> desktop) I found some bug report on debian mentionning
> a somehow similar problem with the new installer and
> needing hacking in many .conf files that seemed
> obsolete... And went through too many cryptic howtos.
> I almost quit linux at that point... I had enough!
Thanks for sticking it through, though when you're trying software for
the first time, might want to hang back on the known stable versions
for a while until you get used to how Linux works. Though you're more
than welcome to tough it out!
> Untill I found an excellent document in French:
> "Formation Linux" (this NEEDS translation)
> http://www.via.ecp.fr/~alexis/formation-linux/. That
> was way more detailed on how to install Woody and get
> some real things done (Play cds, burn, configure and
> optimize X etc...)
> I still haven't found any document matching it in
> english.
http://babelfish.altavista.com/ But yeah, there will be documentation.
> Also the too many "use your brain to solve your problems" answers to
> newbies post I ran accross surfing many newsgroups are inacceptable,
> if Debian is to become anything more than a geek toy.
Well, that's the thing: Debian's not out to please anybody who doesn't
contribute. People who tend to contribute tend to be geeks, and right
now, the geeks are making a move towards accepting the newbies. It's
a two-way street, though, newbies still should know how to ask a smart
question if they want a smart answer.
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
> Installing Woody the old way:
>
> Actually I found installing the old way was simpler
> because now I had proper documentation and new what I
> was doing. I managed to get everything (almost) to
> work the way I wanted.
Woohoo! This was much my experience back when boot-floppies didn't do
quite as much as it does now.
> Get pon dsl-provider to work for users:
>
> (still have to login has root everytime) and continue
> it to work evenafter I unplugged the ethernet cable
> for more than 5 minutes...
In /etc/ppp/options, there should be something about "demand" in
there. Might try fiddling with that to have it automagically go up
and down.
> >From a newbie perspective the debian choice can be
> overwhelming. I still didn't find a better way than
> apt-cache search to get packages that probably do what
> I want to do. I normaly guess what is appropriate but
> I would really appreciate a place where you can see:
> want to do this : this is the best tool.
Actually, AFAIK, everybody uses apt-cache search for that. Pipe it
through less to keep the output from getting overwhelming.
> Finally I would just like to say that are truly enjoy
> the freedom Debian-linux now gives me: I somehow fell
> that I emerged from the MS matrix and now live in the
> free world. I think that if the Debian community put
> more efforts in documenting more with a DOTHIS than a
> HOWTO approach would help getting more people into
> Zion.
The problem is, Debian's flexibility prohibits such drool-proof
documentation for the most part. The final debian-installer is
supposed to greatly simplify the process for people looking to speed
through it and get their hands on Debian while they burn in (God knows
we all had a burn in process where you'd reinstall every couple weeks
to get a fresh start).
- --
.''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@ursine.ca>
: :' :
`. `'` proud Debian admin and user
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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