On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 03:15:18PM -0800, Tom wrote: > On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 01:18:34PM -0800, donw@examen.com wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 04:04:57PM -0500, ScruLoose wrote: > > > On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 11:36:29AM -0800, Tom wrote: > > > > On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 03:35:39PM +0100, Benedict Verheyen wrote: > > > > > > > > I have mixed feelings. One the one hand, I read about China's opium > > > > wars in the 1800s, and see a failed people resulting from "legalizing > > > > it." On the other hand, I see a drug which causes people to fight, > > > > crash their cars, and beat their kids (alcohol) completely normalized. > > > > Not to be too much of a nit, but China's opium problems, and the Opium > > Wars, were mostly courtesey of the British, who were the pushers, > > dealers, and instigators of the whole affair, including the various > > skirmishes and battles. The situation back then was quite far from > > 'legalizing it', and was much closer to the way drugs move in the U.S. > > today, with foreign governments handling production and [illegal] > > distribution, and with the U.S. government fighting a loosing battle > > against them. > > That is all true. Read Terry Parssinen's "Webs of Smoke" for the gory > details. > > However, it is a blunt fact that Chinese users happily consumed the > drug (poppies from India were considered best; chinese poppies were > low-grade), and as a result, their culture, pride, and manhood were > wasted. It left a cultural mark of shame that lasts to this day. > > So the point is, maybe it's not so good for millions of people to get > high, regardless of the cause :-) I'm arguing that it's okay to do pot > only insofar as it is severely limited, by law and by cultural norms. I don't think it's valid to generalise from opium to pot. Both the addictiveness and the nature of the effects are too different. I consider it unfortunate that since they are both illegal such generalisations do tend to be made. There's something of a difference between millions of people slumped on a sofa with their mouth hanging open and the whites of their eyes showing, and millions of people with an increased tendency to be happy and a reduced tendency to go along with pomposity and bullshit. There's This Tribe (TM) who subsist by gathering vegetables and spearing fish. They're not into agriculture for food... but they do cultivate pot so they can get stoned while waiting for a worthwhile fish to come by. It doesn't prevent them from mustering the considerable skill and precision required to spear the fish. -- Pigeon Be kind to pigeons Get my GPG key here: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x21C61F7F
Attachment:
pgpB324hhhpXO.pgp
Description: PGP signature