Re: Windows multiboot (aaargh!)
On Thursday 11 September 2003 09:38, Pigeon wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 07:27:23AM -0500, Kent West wrote:
> > cr wrote:
> > >This may seem an odd place to ask this, but I'll bet some of the folks
> > > on this list know more about the technicalities of booting Windoze than
> > > Windoze users do ;)
> > >
> > >I'd like to add a multi-boot DOS + Win95/98 hard drive to my Linuxbox.
> > >
> > >I currently have Deb 3.0 installed on /dev/hda, booting with GRUB, and
> > > I have a 500MB DOS partition on /dev/hdc1 and /dev/hdd1 (with ext2
> > > Linux partitions on the rest of hdc and hdd). If I want to boot DOS
> > > I just use a boot floppy.
> > >
> > >I have a spare 3GB hard drive I'm thinking of installing on hdc, and I'd
> > >like to do something like this:
> > >
> > >500MB DOS FAT16
> > >500MB DOS FAT16 (optional)
> > >600MB Win95 modified FAT16?
> > >600MB Win98 FAT32?
> > >800MB Linux ext2
> > >
> > >I'd like to be able to boot into DOS, Win95 and Win98.
> > >
> > >I'm just wondering how practical that is. Can W95 and W98 coexist on
> > >the same disk in diferent partitions and still both be bootable? If
> > >not, any suggestion on which is the better one to install? And, would
> > > I need to lose one of the DOS partitions so as not to exceed the
> > > allowable number?
> > >
> > >There are plenty of multiboot HOWTOs, but they all seem to be WinNT +
> > >something. I can't find a W95 + W98. Before I start trying to
> > > figure out the details, I'd just like to know if I'm chasing an
> > > impossibility. Incidentally, I'd probably sit the disk in my old 75MHz
> > > 'spare' computer to do the installs so I don't risk munging my Debian
> > > system. When it's all set up, I'll pop it into my No 1 Linuxbox and
> > > set about tuning GRUB.
> > >
> > >And, no, I'm not going to let those Windoze partitions anywhere near the
> > >modem. ;) No email, no browser. Any internet stuff goes through
> > >Debian.
> > >cr
> >
> > IIRC, DOS, Win95, and maybe Win98 insist on being on the first partition
> > on the "C:" drive.
>
> They don't insist on being the first partition. Nor is it true that
> you can only have one primary DOS partition: it's just that DOS FDISK
> won't let you create more than one.
>
> > If you BIOS can trick these OSes into believing
> > /dev/hdcx is "C:", you're a bit closer. I don't want to say you're
> > "chasing an impossibility", but I think you'll have to come up with
> > several kludges to make it work.
>
> This is true.
>
> The selection between "boot Debian" and "boot Microsoft" is easy. Use
> your BIOS Setup to tell the BIOS that /dev/hda doesn't exist. Assuming
> that /dev/hdb doesn't exist / is a CD-ROM / doesn't have an MBR, the
> BIOS will then try and boot from /dev/hdc. (Well, they do when I've
> tried it.)
Well, either I'll try setting the drive up in my spare PC (and risk having to
change the video drivers), or I'll try it in this PC and unplug /hda while
I'm doing it just to be double-safe. Don't want M$ overwriting Debian. :)
> The selection between which Microsoft OS you want to boot involves a
> bit of kludgery to set up and a bit of kludgery to use. This is what
> I'd do:
>
> To set up:
>
> - Make a DOS boot floppy with FDISK and FORMAT on, and a Linux boot
> floppy with cfdisk on.
> - Boot DOS, and partition /dev/hdc with one 500MB primary DOS
> partition (for your DOS boot partition), no other partitions.
> - Boot Linux, and use cfdisk to change the partition type of that
> partition to something DOS doesn't recognise.
> - Boot DOS, and add a 600MB primary DOS partition for your Win95 boot
> partition.
> - Boot Linux, and use cfdisk to change the partition type of the new
> partition to something DOS doesn't recognise.
> - Boot DOS, and add a 600MB primary DOS partition for your Win98 boot
> drive. (You can convert it to FAT32 later from within Win98.) Then
> add an extended partition and create your "optional" 500MB DOS
> partition inside it.
> - Boot Linux, and add your 800MB ext2 partition in the extended
> partition. Then change the partition types of the first two
> partitions back to primary DOS. Set the "bootable" flag on one of
> them.
> - Boot DOS, and FORMAT /U /S all the DOS partitions. Then on those
> that are to be for 95 or 98, install MSCDEX.EXE and the CD-ROM
> driver .SYS so you can boot them and read the installation CD
> (ie. copy the files on and write one-liner CONFIG.SYS and
> AUTOEXEC.BAT.)
Yes, that actually all makes sense to me. (!) I'm familiar with MSCDEX....
I recall reinstalling Win98 on my father's PC after his hard drive failed,
and we found his W98 CD didn't seem to be self-booting - I first had to
install DOS6.22 on the new drive, then scrabble around frantically looking
for a DOS driver for the CD drive and install that, before I could start
installing 98. Coming shortly after I'd installed Red Hat 6 on mine, which
was just a case of 'stick the CD in and follow the menus', I was distinctly
unimpressed. ;)
>
> so you end up with
>
> 1 Pri DOS 500MB Bootable ; for DOS
> 2 Pri DOS 600MB ; for W95
> 3 Pri DOS 600MB ; for W98
> 4 Extended --> 5 DOS 500MB ; DOS "optional"
> \-> 6 ext2 800MB ; Linux
>
> The reason for doing it this way is to reconcile the following:
> - a Linux partition should be created with a Linux fdisk, and a
> DOS/Windoze partition with a DOS FDISK (Windoze FDISK can be flaky)
Yes, I've read in the HOWTOs to use the 'native' fdisk for each partition.
> - DOS FDISK won't let you create more than one primary DOS partition
> - Each MS OS needs to be in a primary partition for the DOS/Windoze
> bootloader to work.
>
> To switch between booting different OSes, two methods are possible:
>
> - (Easy, but unsmooth) Use Norton Utilities (for DOS) to edit the
> partition table and set the "bootable" flag on the partition for the
> OS you want to boot. From within Win95/98, set the shortcut to
> Norton to "run in MS-DOS mode".
> - (Not so easy, but smoother) write a program to set the appropriate
> "bootable" flag as you instruct and then reboot. For example, you
> could have it accept as a command-line parameter the OS you want to
> switch to, and then "reboot 95" or "reboot 98" from within DOS, or
> in 95/98 set a couple of shortcuts with the appropriate command-line
> parameter and "run in MS-DOS mode".
>
> For the simpler case with only two potentially-bootable partitions, I
> have written a correspondingly simpler program which simply swaps the
> "bootable" flag between the first two partitions. You're welcome to
> the source code if you want it.
Thanks, but I'll see whether I can find my old copy of Norton, first.
> You need to get this set up before installing the OSes. Then, for DOS,
> simply set the DOS partition bootable and boot off the DOS
> installation floppy as usual. For 95 and 98, set the appropriate
> partition bootable, boot it, stick the installation CD in and run
> SETUP.EXE. Make sure you tell it to install on the C: drive, because
> if the Windoze installer finds a \WINDOWS directory already existing
> on one of the other drives it defaults to installing into that.
>
> You will end up finding that whichever partition you boot into comes
> up as C:, the other two primary partitions will be D: and E:, and the
> extended partition will be F:. (I think.)
>
> It may be the case that GRUB will allow you to switch between boots
> more neatly than this, but I think you still have to resort to this
> sort of kludgery to get the OSes installed.
I'm hoping GRUB will do the trick. There are several 'multiboot with GRUB /
LILO' HOWTOs around, though for different versions of Windows than (95+98).
It's usually 'NT + 95/98' or similar. But if 95 and 98 can be installed,
without fatally clashing, GRUB should be able to boot either. I hope.
> Once you've got 98 installed use "FAT32 Converter" or whatever it's
> called to change that partition to FAT32.
>
> It is also possible to boot Linux from within DOS/Windoze using
> LOADLIN.EXE (again "run in MS-DOS mode") without actually rebooting.
I'll try that, maybe, after I get it set up. It would be handy.
Thanks for all the info.
cr
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