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>debian-user-digest Digest Volume 2003 : Issue 2597
>
>Today's Topics:
> Re: (library qt-mt) not found [ Thomas Krennwallner <
djmaecki@ull.a ]
> Re: Hot-plugging USB storage devices [ Iain Georgeson <
iain@kremlinux.demo ]
> Re: Quoting [ Christian Schoeller <
c_p_s@gmx.net> ]
> Re: Power off [ Micha Feigin <
michf@post.tau.ac.il> ]
> Re: Quoting [ Travis Crump <
pretzalz@techhouse.or ]
> Re: modutils and module-init-tools d [ =?iso-8859-1?q?Roberto=
20Sanchez?= ]
> Re: Spamassassin + exim [ Paul Johnson <
baloo@ursine.ca> ]
> Re: Alsa and Linux kernel 2.6.0-test [ =?iso-8859-1?q?Roberto=
20Sanchez?= ]
> Re: Spamassassin + exim [ Marc Wilson <msw@cox.net> ]
> Re: Spamassassin + exim [ Marc Wilson <msw@cox.net> ]
> Re: Packages: required vs recommende [ Marc Wilson <msw@cox.net> ]
> Re: Spamassassin + exim [ kenneth dombrowski <
kenneth@ylayali ]
> Re: Spamassassin + exim [ Paul Johnson <
baloo@ursine.ca> ]
> Re: OT: Debian Mailinglist server sl [ Bijan Soleymani <
bijan@psq.com> ]
>
>Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:26:02 +0200
>From: Thomas Krennwallner <djmaecki@ull.at>
>To: debian-us <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
>Subject: Re: (library qt-mt) not found
>Message-ID: <20030831172601.GK3076@ull.at>
>References: <1062349380.4958.4.camel@ZekeVarg> <
200308311913.07463.gtdev@spearhead.de>
>In-Reply-To: <200308311913.07463.gtdev@spearhead.de>
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>
>Hi!
>
>On Sun Aug 31, 2003 at 07:13:07PM +0200, Nicos Gollan wrote:
>> On Sunday 31 August 2003 19:03, ZekeVarg wrote:
>> > I'm trying to compile a program but #./configure ends with this
>> > error:
>>=20
>> Don't build stuff as root (I suppose you did that because of the #
>> prompt...). It's not only bad style, it's also a security risk.
>> Compile the stuff as user and only install it as root.
>
>I go even farther and don't install as root. Put yourself into the
staff
>group and install into /usr/local or better use a package manager like
>stow and install into /usr/local/stow/foo-x.y
>
>So long
>Thomas
>
>--=20
> .''`. Obviously we do not want to leave zombies around. - W. R.
Stevens
>: :' : Thomas Krennwallner <djmaecki at ull dot at>
>`. `'` 1024D/67A1DA7B 9484 D99D 2E1E 4E02 5446 DAD9 FF58 4E59 67A1
DA7B
> `- http://bigfish.ull.at/~djmaecki/
>
>--1hKfHPzOXWu1rh0v
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>--1hKfHPzOXWu1rh0v--
>
>Date: 31 Aug 2003 18:18:57 +0100
>From: Iain Georgeson <iain@kremlinux.demon.co.uk>
>To:
>Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>Subject: Re: Hot-plugging USB storage devices.
>Message-ID: <87bru5n3su.fsf@coin.morpork.local>
>References: <20030830231559.11990.qmail@web41807.mail.yahoo.com>
> <87n0dqmw6m.fsf@coin.morpork.local> <3F518ABA.80709@iprimus.com.au>
>In-Reply-To: <3F518ABA.80709@iprimus.com.au>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>Russell Shaw <rjshaw@iprimus.com.au> writes:
>> scsitools solves the ordering problem by giving scsi devices a
>> unique name based on its hardware.
>
>That appears to be exactly what I'm looking for. Mucho thanks. (I'm
>still fighting rescan-scsi-bus.sh ATM, but I'm sure it'll capitulate
>in time).
>
>> dpkg -p
>
>I didn't know about that one. ;)
>
>> apt-get install -t testing scsitools
>
>Stable, in this case.
>
> Iain.
>
>--
>Iain Georgeson | Keirsey: INTJ | Belbin: Plant | Debian Woody
>People who love sausages, respect the law, and work with IT standards
>shouldn't watch any of them being made.
> -- Peter Gutmann
>
>Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:33:36 +0200
>From: Christian Schoeller <c_p_s@gmx.net>
>To: debuser <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
>Subject: Re: Quoting
>Message-ID: <20030831173336.GA456@Powerbook-G4-CPS.local.>
>References: <20030829151847.7e115b5b.rkimber@ntlworld.com> <
20030829143647.GU6254@niof.net> <20030829155140.GD20984@ursine.ca> <
00c701c36e4e$4502c620$fe78a8c0@yves> <
20030830224638.GA4382@server.crasseux.com> <
20030831082226.GD843@ursine.ca> <20030831090905.GC473@Powerbook-G4-
CPS.local.> <20030831101300.GA1907@ursine.ca> <
20030831121116.GA475@Powerbook-G4-CPS.local.> <
1062350348.6196.2.camel@Thief>
>In-Reply-To: <1062350348.6196.2.camel@Thief>
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>On Sun, Aug 31, 2003 at 12:19:08PM -0500, Alex Malinovich wrote:
>> Well, I have been attending a university for 5 years now, and in all
>> that time I've met one student who regularly uses Linux and one
>> professor who has used Linux before. It's a relatively small school
>> though. About 5000 students I think.
>
>Oh, very nice. Up to this moment I was looking forward to my time at
>the University of Vienna, but now... No, seriously: you somehow can't
>compare it, but on my school (900 pupils) there is nobody who actually
>uses Linux, so I used to think that this fact would change at
>university.
>
>Obviously this isn't the turth...
>
>C.
>
>--=20
>Christian Schoeller {Schueler} | "Eine weltweite Geschenkverteilung
>MAIL {mailto:c_p_s@gmx.net} | wuerde jede Zivilisation unmoeglich
>HTTP {http://www.yaup.at.tt} | machen." --aus: "Kapitalismus und
>EBAY {c_p_s!} | Freiheit" von Milton Friedman=20
>--3MwIy2ne0vdjdPXF
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>
>Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:36:44 +0300
>From: Micha Feigin <michf@post.tau.ac.il>
>To: Debian User List <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
>Subject: Re: Power off
>Message-Id: <1062351403.4570.17.camel@litshi.luna.local>
>References: <20030830173805.34638.qmail@web20413.mail.yahoo.com>
> <Pine.LNX.4.56.0308310424100.432@office.home.net>
>In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0308310424100.432@office.home.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>On Sun, 2003-08-31 at 10:31, Frank Hrebabetzky wrote:
>> On Sat, 30 Aug 2003, Z F wrote:
>>
>> All I want from power management is switching off at the end, but I
don't
>> know if APM or ACPI is preferable for that. My experience so far
shows:
>> 1. ACPI compiled into kernel: no power off
>> 2. APM compiled into kernel: system hangs at boot
>
>Forgive me if I am repeating here, since I didn't follow the start of
>the thread, but what kernel version and what acpi version (patch or
>builtin?),
>since acpi version in 2.4.21 is old, you need either the patch from
>acpi.sourceforge.org or kernel 2.4.22.
>Also with the acpi patch on 2.4.21 there was a problem with my laptop
>that it didn't power down properly and I needed to change the sleep
>level from S5 to S4 in acpi_power_off function. This was solved in the
>acpi version thats in 2.4.22
>
>>
>> Please see my next posting about that.
>>
>> > do you know if you have APM or ACPI ?
>> >
>> > Maybe you are compiling a wrong power manager into the kernel.
Whether
>> > you have APM or ACPI depends on you BIOS. If you do not have ACPI
>> > option when you run make menuconfig see if you enabled
>> >
>> > "Prompt for development/incomplete drivers" in code maturity
>> > level option.
>> >
>> > Try enabling ACPI if you have not done so.
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------
>> Frank Hrebabetzky Tel.: +55 / 48 / 235 1106
>> Florianopolis +55 / 48 / 9998 7686
>> Brazil email: frankh@terra.com.br
>>
>--
>Micha Feigin
>michf@math.tau.ac.il
>
>Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 13:51:56 -0400
>From: Travis Crump <pretzalz@techhouse.org>
>To: debuser <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
>Subject: Re: Quoting
>Message-ID: <3F5235BC.9030204@techhouse.org>
>References: <20030829151847.7e115b5b.rkimber@ntlworld.com> <
20030829143647.GU6254@niof.net> <20030829155140.GD20984@ursine.ca> <
00c701c36e4e$4502c620$fe78a8c0@yves> <
20030830224638.GA4382@server.crasseux.com> <
20030831082226.GD843@ursine.ca> <20030831090905.GC473@Powerbook-G4-
CPS.local.> <20030831101300.GA1907@ursine.ca> <
20030831121116.GA475@Powerbook-G4-CPS.local.> <
1062350348.6196.2.camel@Thief> <20030831173336.GA456@Powerbook-G4-
CPS.local.>
>In-Reply-To: <20030831173336.GA456@Powerbook-G4-CPS.local.>
>Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
> protocol="application/pgp-signature";
> boundary="------------enig210D073FFEF3F988AA1EAD27"
>
>This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156)
>--------------enig210D073FFEF3F988AA1EAD27
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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>Christian Schoeller wrote:
>> On Sun, Aug 31, 2003 at 12:19:08PM -0500, Alex Malinovich wrote:
>>
>>>Well, I have been attending a university for 5 years now, and in all
>>>that time I've met one student who regularly uses Linux and one
>>>professor who has used Linux before. It's a relatively small school
>>>though. About 5000 students I think.
>>
>>
>> Oh, very nice. Up to this moment I was looking forward to my time at
>> the University of Vienna, but now... No, seriously: you somehow
can't
>> compare it, but on my school (900 pupils) there is nobody who
actually
>> uses Linux, so I used to think that this fact would change at
>> university.
>>
>> Obviously this isn't the turth...
>>
>> C.
>>
>
>When I went to university, my dorm had its own linux server with vt's
>positioned throughout the dorm which pretty much everyone used. If
that
>makes you feel better... :)
>
>--------------enig210D073FFEF3F988AA1EAD27
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>--------------enig210D073FFEF3F988AA1EAD27--
>
>Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 19:59:43 +0200 (CEST)
>From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Roberto=20Sanchez?= <rcsanchez97@yahoo.es>
>To: debian-user <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
>Subject: Re: modutils and module-init-tools duplicating work
>Message-ID: <20030831175943.53164.qmail@web41806.mail.yahoo.com>
>In-Reply-To: <1062189475.8791.106.camel@litshi.luna.local>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
> --- Micha Feigin <michafeigin@yahoo.com> escribió:
>> > modultils -- kernel < 2.5.48
>> > module-init-tools -- kernel >= 2.5.48
>> >
>> > Of course, module if module-init-tools finds an earlier kernel, it
passes
>> the
>> > work on to the old version.
>> >
>>
>> They are still almost the same, except for the check whether to run
>> depmod in module-init-tools. Why do we need two of them?
>>
>
>Because, as of kernel 2.5.48 the kernel modules now end in .ko and
have a
>completely different internal structure. The new module-init-tools
does not
>handle old style modules, but recognizes and passes them on to
modutils.
>The old modutils knows nothing of the new formats and will barf all
over itself
>if you attempt to build, load, remove, or otherwise operate on a
module with
>it.
>
>The short answer is: because they are not cross compatible.
>
>-Roberto
>
>___________________________________________________
>Yahoo! Messenger - Nueva versión GRATIS
>Super Webcam, voz, caritas animadas, y más...
>http://messenger.yahoo.es
>
>Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 11:06:16 -0700
>From: Paul Johnson <baloo@ursine.ca>
>To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>Subject: Re: Spamassassin + exim
>Message-ID: <20030831180616.GA31771@ursine.ca>
>References: <200308291323.51623.jeffelkins@earthlink.net> <
200308301504.59413.jeffelkins@earthlink.net> <
20030830173934.3ba18539.grey@dmiyu.org> <
200308302216.14529.jeffelkins@earthlink.net> <
20030831124250.GB12654@ursine.ca> <20030831125640.GA1018@iglou.com>
>In-Reply-To: <20030831125640.GA1018@iglou.com>
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>Hash: SHA1
>
>On Sun, Aug 31, 2003 at 08:56:43AM -0400, Jeff McAdams wrote:
>> Of course, multipart MIME is strictly the same thing as an
attachment.
>> Specifically, the various parts of multipart/signed messages are
shown
>> as inline rather than attached. The distinction is minor, but a
fair
>> number of MUA's honor that distinction, so PGP signatures like
yours,
>> mine and others won't show up as an attachment. Of course, a fair
>> number of MUA's are hideously broken in their handling, so even
>> text/plain sometimes shows up as an attachment. *sigh*
>
>Yes, whereas mutt really does the job right. It's a bummer nobody's
>made a KDE shell for mutt to bring the joy of mutt to the Windows
>convert newbies. It would totally blow their minds.
>
>- --
> .''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@ursine.ca>
>: :' :
>`. `'` proud Debian admin and user
> `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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>Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:06:16 +0200 (CEST)
>From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Roberto=20Sanchez?= <rcsanchez97@yahoo.es>
>To: Debian Users Mailing List <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
>Subject: Re: Alsa and Linux kernel 2.6.0-test4
>Message-ID: <20030831180616.94010.qmail@web41810.mail.yahoo.com>
>In-Reply-To: <1062347435.707.7.camel@ethshar>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
> --- Kevin Johnson <kjohnson@secureideas.net> escribió:
>> Hi-
>>
>> I just decided to switch from RedHat to Debian and so far am very
>> impressed. I purchased a Dell Dimension 4600 and installed Woody.
I
>> then switched to unstable. I found Crafterm's site that had the
.deb
>> files for the kernel 2.4.21 and installed them so that my network
card
>> would work. On that site he has a file that talks about the audio
card
>> and the problems with the SB Live that Dell ships. So I removed
that
>> card and enabled the onboard sound. He then talks about installing
>> 2.4.22 of the kernel. I looked and could not find any packages to
do
>> this, so I thought if I have to compile a kernel I might as well try
out
>> 2.6.0-test4. The comile seemed to go fine but when I boot into this
new
>> kernel I get the following message:
>>
>> Starting ALSA (unknown version): failed - ALSA modules not
installed
>>
>
>Do you actually have ALSA support enabled, or are you using the
(deprecated)
>OSS drivers? If you have ALSA enabled, do you have it selected as
modules
>or compiled in to the kernel? I have found that compiling in ALSA
support
>does not work very well yet. I think that this because ALSA has only
recently
>been integrated in the kernel and every app/util (including alsa-base
and
>alsa-utils) that deals with ALSA _assumes_ that it is working with
modules.
>Once I went back and recompiled the kernel with modular ALSA support
instead,
>everything worked great.
>
>> Everything else seems to work, my NIC and video and the machine
actually
>> seems faster. But I need sound. Ok I don't need it but I sure
would
>> like it<grin>
>>
>
>I can agree that sound is a necessity nowadays.
>
>> I have searched Google and groups and can't find this message in
anyway
>> that appears to fit my error. Does anyone have any ideas or
pointers to
>> places where I can get a fix. I would even go back to a previous
kernel
>> if need be.
>>
>
>2.6.0 is still really new, so help is sketchy. You may want to try
LKML, but
>they are all pretty busy, so you may not get the help you need there.
Colin
>might be able to shed some more light on that, as I think he lurks on
LKML.
>
>> Thanks for the help.
>> Kevin
>>
>
>-Roberto
>
>___________________________________________________
>Yahoo! Messenger - Nueva versión GRATIS
>Super Webcam, voz, caritas animadas, y más...
>http://messenger.yahoo.es
>
>Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 11:16:42 -0700
>From: Marc Wilson <msw@cox.net>
>To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>Subject: Re: Spamassassin + exim
>Message-ID: <20030831181642.GC11823@rei.moonkingdom.net>
>References: <200308291323.51623.jeffelkins@earthlink.net> <
200308301504.59413.jeffelkins@earthlink.net> <
20030830173934.3ba18539.grey@dmiyu.org> <
200308302216.14529.jeffelkins@earthlink.net> <
20030831124250.GB12654@ursine.ca> <20030831125640.GA1018@iglou.com> <
20030831180616.GA31771@ursine.ca>
>In-Reply-To: <20030831180616.GA31771@ursine.ca>
>Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
> protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="VS++wcV0S1rZb1Fb"
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>
>On Sun, Aug 31, 2003 at 11:06:16AM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote:
>> Yes, whereas mutt really does the job right. It's a bummer nobody's
>> made a KDE shell for mutt to bring the joy of mutt to the Windows
>> convert newbies. It would totally blow their minds.
>
>KDE shell for mutt? What's konsole, then?
>
>And no, they'd not even care. It's KDE, remember? Whether it gets
the job
>done is entirely secondary to how it looks, and mutt in a konsole
doesn't
>have any eye candy.
>
>--=20
> Marc Wilson | (Presuming for the sake of argument that it's even
> msw@cox.net | *possible* to design better code in Perl than in C.
> | :-) -- Larry Wall on core code vs. module code
design
>
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>
>Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 11:18:11 -0700
>From: Marc Wilson <msw@cox.net>
>To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>Subject: Re: Spamassassin + exim
>Message-ID: <20030831181811.GD11823@rei.moonkingdom.net>
>References: <200308291323.51623.jeffelkins@earthlink.net> <
200308302216.14529.jeffelkins@earthlink.net> <
20030830191949.07756265.grey@dmiyu.org> <
200308302235.20379.jeffelkins@earthlink.net> <
20030831124510.GC12654@ursine.ca>
>In-Reply-To: <20030831124510.GC12654@ursine.ca>
>Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
> protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="LyciRD1jyfeSSjG0"
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>
>On Sun, Aug 31, 2003 at 05:45:10AM -0700, Paul Johnson wrote:
>> exim doesn't do filtering, but procmail does. You may find procmail
>> better suited to your needs, but a good part of the decision is
>> personal choice.
>
>Er, exim most certainly does do filtering. There's a lot to be said
for
>rejecting the mail during the SMTP transaction.
>
>--=20
> Marc Wilson | Smartness runs in my family. When I went to school
> msw@cox.net | I was so smart my teacher was in my class for
> | five years. -- George Burns
>
>--LyciRD1jyfeSSjG0
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>
>Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 11:26:35 -0700
>From: Marc Wilson <msw@cox.net>
>To: Debian-User <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
>Subject: Re: Packages: required vs recommended vs suggested
>Message-ID: <20030831182635.GE11823@rei.moonkingdom.net>
>References: <1062349885.12001.8.camel@gandalf>
>In-Reply-To: <1062349885.12001.8.camel@gandalf>
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>On Sun, Aug 31, 2003 at 01:11:24PM -0400, Neal Lippman wrote:
>> I was wondering if someone could clarify how apt-get handles the
various
>> categories of related packages.
>
>It doesn't. The only thing apt-get cares about is dependencies.
>
>> I did in install last pm of a package which "recommends" other
packages,
>> which it turned out I needed in order to make things work.
>
>Then perhaps they're actually dependencies? Did you file a bug?
>
>> However, apt-get install <package> did not automagically install the
>> recommended packages (it did get required dependencies) and I spent
quite
>> a while before I figured that out.
>
>Yes, as documented, apt-get doesn't care about Recommends or Suggests.
>IMHO, a tool that didn't give you the option of whether to install
them,
>but automatically went and did it, kind of makes moot the idea of a
package
>being anything other than a dep.
>
>> How do you cause apt-get to at least ask you about installing
>> recommended, or suggested, package dependencies?
>
>You don't. You use a real package management tool rather than
something
>that was originally coded as a demonstration of libapt and dependency
>resolution.
>
>Personally, I have no problem with dselect, but most other people will
>probably point you to aptitude.
>
>--
> Marc Wilson | I am covered with pure vegetable oil and I am
writing
> msw@cox.net | a best seller!
>
>Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 14:15:09 -0400
>From: kenneth dombrowski <kenneth@ylayali.net>
>To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>Subject: Re: Spamassassin + exim
>Message-ID: <20030831181509.GA4423@ylayali.net>
>References: <200308291323.51623.jeffelkins@earthlink.net> <
200308302216.14529.jeffelkins@earthlink.net> <
20030830191949.07756265.grey@dmiyu.org> <
200308302235.20379.jeffelkins@earthlink.net> <
20030830194634.5bcb6a59.grey@dmiyu.org> <3F516923.6020004@tacocat.net>
<20030830202743.07c9da83.grey@dmiyu.org> <3F516E1D.7010302@tacocat.net>
<20030830204847.12b7478a.grey@dmiyu.org>
>In-Reply-To: <20030830204847.12b7478a.grey@dmiyu.org>
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>
>what a timely thread!
>
>excuse me for interrupting,
>
>On 03-08-30 20:48 -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
>> You can tell by looking at the headers and seeing if BAYES_xx
shows up.
>> The xx is the approx. range that the Bayesian filter places the
particular
>> piece of mail. For example here's the score from the message of
yours I am
>> responding to:
>>
>> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.6 required=5.0
>> tests=BAYES_10,NO_REAL_NAME
>> version=2.55
>>
>
>well, there's definitely something wrong with my setup since upgrading
>from 2.43 -> 2.55 this past week, I've fed sa-learn almost 2k --spam
>and >4k --ham messages, and I'm yet to see a single BAYES_* test in
the
>headers
>
>I've been looking at this all morning, & am totally at a loss.
>I'm running unofficial backports of SA 2.55 found on apt-get.org:
>
>ENKIDU:/var/log# dpkg -l spamassassin spamc perl
>||/ Name Version Description
>+++-==============-==============-====================================
=======>ii spamassassin 2.55-2.nobse.1 Perl-based spam filter using
text
>analysis
>ii spamc 2.55-2.nobse.1 Client for perl-based spam filtering
>daemon
>ii perl 5.6.1-8.3 Larry Wall's Practical Extraction
and
>Report
>
>Anyway, I know when I had to have my unstable machine fill in for my
>mail server for a day this past June, 2.54 in sid worked right off,
but
>with Perl 5.8.
>
>I'm not sure I'm willing to de-stabalize my Woody box to the point of
>upgrading Perl.
>
>Can anyone confirm that SA 2.55 and Perl 5.6.1 will or will not
>cooperate?
>
>Has anyone else had problems getting this particular backport to begin
>to run the BAYES_ tests?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Kenneth
>
>Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 11:37:29 -0700
>From: Paul Johnson <baloo@ursine.ca>
>To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>Subject: Re: Spamassassin + exim
>Message-ID: <20030831183729.GA8672@ursine.ca>
>References: <200308291323.51623.jeffelkins@earthlink.net> <
200308301504.59413.jeffelkins@earthlink.net> <
20030830173934.3ba18539.grey@dmiyu.org> <
200308302216.14529.jeffelkins@earthlink.net> <
20030831124250.GB12654@ursine.ca> <20030831125640.GA1018@iglou.com> <
20030831180616.GA31771@ursine.ca> <
20030831181642.GC11823@rei.moonkingdom.net>
>In-Reply-To: <20030831181642.GC11823@rei.moonkingdom.net>
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>On Sun, Aug 31, 2003 at 11:16:42AM -0700, Marc Wilson wrote:
>> KDE shell for mutt? What's konsole, then?
>
>No, I meant like a GUI frontend.
>
>- --
> .''`. Paul Johnson <baloo@ursine.ca>
>: :' :
>`. `'` proud Debian admin and user
> `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system
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>Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 14:32:26 -0400
>From: Bijan Soleymani <bijan@psq.com>
>To: Arnt Karlsen <arnt@c2i.net>
>Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org
>Subject: Re: OT: Debian Mailinglist server slow?
>Message-id: <20030831183226.GA21983@server.crasseux.com>
>References: <20030827101722.GI17855@ursine.ca>
> <20030830181514.GL4369@pigeon.pigeonloft>
> <20030831040435.0990bf1d.arnt@c2i.net>
> <200308310703.h7V72uxj010926@dbmail-mx2.orcon.co.nz>
> <20030831153014.0dcfb35d.arnt@c2i.net>
>In-reply-to: <20030831153014.0dcfb35d.arnt@c2i.net>
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>On Sun, Aug 31, 2003 at 03:30:14PM +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 18:58:52 +1200,=20
>> cr <cr@orcon.net.nz> wrote in message=20
>> <200308310703.h7V72uxj010926@dbmail-mx2.orcon.co.nz>:
>>=20
>> > On Sunday 31 August 2003 14:04, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
>> >=20
>> > > > The London Underground was originally designed to allow
through
>> > > > running from the mainline railways to stations more convenient
for
>> > > > central London than the mainline termini, which were very much
on
>> > > > the outskirts of the London of the time. There are several
>> > > > connections between the two systems, and the "suburbs" end of
>> > > > several Underground routes is reached over main line track, so
>> > > > Underground drivers on such routes have to know two sets of
>> > > > operating rules, Underground rules and national rules.
>> > >
>> > > ..this sounds like a _very_ good time to pour a shipload of
concrete
>> > > onto those wintendo-style dual rule tracks, to replace the nice
hard
>> > > rock that _should_ have separated those two track systems.
>> >=20
>> > Now that's nonsense. The operating rules are basically the same
for
>> > both systems, there's no major difference. And the trains are
no
>> > more different than, say, an express passenger and a slow goods,
which
>> > have always shared the tracks with a good degree of safety for 175
>> > years. =20
>> >=20
>> > It also makes all sorts of sense to extend Underground services on
to>=20
>> > less-busy mainline branches where the traffic patterns justify it.
>>=20
>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 04:35:55 -0700,=20
>> Paul Johnson <baloo@ursine.ca> wrote in message=20
>> <20030831113555.GI8074@ursine.ca>:
>>=20
>> > Why? Passenger and freight peacefully coexist on tracks
worldwide.
>>=20
>> ...as does airliners and high rises. You both ignore how=20
>> war criminals and terrorists work; they _break_ the rules. =20
>
>What you say seems to imply that the solution to that problem is to
>either get planes to fly on the ground or to get rid of high rises :)
>
>Bijan
>--=20
>Bijan Soleymani <bijan@psq.com>
>http://www.crasseux.com
>
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