RE: Users ready for Debian on the Desktop
I think the key here is that if you know what you are doing, Linux is an
easy install, and windows is still a pain in the ass. But if you don't
know what you're doing--in my experience--then Linux is much harder. I
have installed/attempted to install Linux a few times now. Not once
have I gotten X windows to work better than erratically. I installed
Red Hat 6.1 about 2 or 3 times. I installed Mandrake 8.0 once, by
myself, and then I reinstalled it with the supervision of a friend who
had also installed it. I have more recently installed Woody twice, once
successfully onto a server at home (no X), and once unsuccessfully onto
my laptop. I have read far more about installing linux than I ever will
about installing Windows (which I reinstall about 2-4 times a year, just
as a means of Spring-cleaning), and yet I still have this problem. Of
course in time it will be much easier.
This doesn't just go for installing the OS, this goes for installing
applications as well. Having just spent about 8 hours trying to get
Pine installed on my debian server, scouring the archives of this list
as well as google, I must also say that my experience installing
applications has been rough. Of course I have run into driver
compatibility issues with Windows as well, but I am usually able to
resolve the problem within a couple of hours (even if "resolving the
problem" means finding out that it's not possible to fix). Apt-get is
my friend, and while I would still be determined to become proficient in
managing linux without it, it has definitely helped my resolve in
chasing after this goal.
Moving onwards, I find that Linux is not easy to configure. To put it
more precisely, those things which are difficult to configure/deal with
in Windows are easier in Linux (network-related issues come first to
mind), but those things which are easy in Windows (changing resolution
and refresh rate, for one) are not nearly as easy in Linux. The fact
that I can't adjust my refresh rate in X by just right clicking, (then
clicking a couple more times), and then choosing a drop down item from a
list of safe refresh rates is my biggest pet peeve. I never want to
change my refresh rate by editing a file ever again.
It can be very difficult to learn your way around linux if you don't
have a suitable mentor. It can be just as difficult to learn your way
around windows, but I've found that windows users are more accustomed to
working with people that have no clue what they're doing (this is from
my limited experience, mind you). In learning Linux, I am constantly
running into a wall of assumed knowledge--that is, I am constantly
getting help that is useless to me because I don't know enough to
understand it. With Windows, I'm more likely to run into the opposite
problem, where the person assumes that I don't know anything, and
explains things to me that I already know in a condescending manner. As
frustrating as it is, I'll always prefer the latter scenario over the
former. Man pages, while more useful, generally operate on a higher
level of assumed knowledge than windows help files.
Final comment:
In regards to Linux making sense to most consumers or large businesses
as a desktop--it will be a while. In fact, I predict that it will take
longer than Windows has been around. For businesses: One reason is that
it doesn't integrate effectively (to my knowledge) with Outlook, Visual
Studio .NET, Visual Sourcesafe, and a number of other sucky tools that
you will need at many large companies. On the other hand, you can do
pretty much any sort of development you need in windows. You can even
have emacs and CVS. Another reason is that most people that large
companies are liable to hire can use windows as a development
environment (though not all of them would want to). On the other hand,
not too many would want to use Linux, and a number of them can't.
As for consumers, it's hard to buy software for linux. You can't play
the latest games, you can't pick up money management software at
CompUSA, watching DVDs took a while to happen on Linux (and even then
the quality was reputed to be dubious, and for a while there was only
one player to choose from), it will be even longer for the next format.
Software is not as standardized (good: you have more to choose from.
bad: you don't know what you can reliably expect to find on a linux
machine in terms of browsing, editing documents, etc.).
My prediction is that if Linux gains a major foothold amongst consumers
as a desktop OS, it will be because OS X paved the way for it (moving
from Windows to OS X is easier than to Linux, and moving from OSX to
linux is easier than from Windows). I also predict that once it makes
it past a certain threshold (let's say 50% of new desktops,
arbitrarily), it will also be making headways in terms of user
friendliness, standardization of software, and availability of
games/applications in computer stores. As the demand increases for
these things in Linux, I think Linux will deliver.
As for me, I have had too much frustration with Linux as a desktop to be
an early adopter.
yours,
Jun-Dai Bates-Kobashigawa
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Frank Gevaerts [mailto:frank@gevaerts.be]
> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 2:36 AM
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: Users ready for Debian on the Desktop
>
> On Fri, Apr 18, 2003 at 12:53:59AM -0700, Vineet Kumar wrote:
> > This is a very important but seldom realized point. I invite anyone
who
> > claims that "Linux is hard to install" to attempt a ground-up
install of
> > any version of windows.
>
> I usually plan 2 hours for a linux install and at least half a day for
a
> windows install (basic os with all hardware working correctly, no
advanced
> setup or applications)
>
> Frank
>
>
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