RE: OT: Politics of Java

["Charlie Reiman" <creiman@kefta.com>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kent West [mailto:westk@acu.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 9:42 AM
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: OT: Politics of Java
>
>
> Derrick 'dman' Hudson wrote:
>
> >On Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 10:04:30PM -0800, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
> >| On Wednesday 20 November 2002 21:06, Kent West wrote:
> >| >
> >| > I'm just curious; do other folks (particularly real
> developers, not just
> >| > tinkerer-wanna-be's like myself) have a similar problem with Java, or
> >| > have I just been channeling too much RMS lately?
> >
> >I would avoid java if I wasn't require to use it in class and at work.
> >Since I am required, use this apt sources line and install the
> >'j2sdk1.4' package.
> >    deb ftp://ftp.tux.org/pub/java/debian/ sid main non-free
> >
> >| If you are looking for an easy, fun, quick to learn language
> give Python a
> >| try.
> >
> >I agree here.  In fact, python is older, more cross-platform and more
> >OO than java is.  All it lacks is the marketing budget of Sun.
> >
> >-D
> >
> >
> >
> Shaleh was the one to plug python first. But what dman says here gets my
> attention. Do others concur that python is more cross-platform and more
> OO than java? What are the disadvantages with python as opposed to java?
> Why would someone pick java over python then? Is it only because of
> marketing, as dman says?
>
> Kent

We're really really off topic here. Personally, I like Java better but this
is personal preference.

Java:
  - Owned by sun
  + Well spec'd from the beginning
  - Huge. standard libraries have lots of useless crap
  o Unicode-16 is std string representation. Good for i18n, bad for
performance.
  + Well integrated thread and lock support.
  + Latest VMs are very fast
  + Real garbage collector
  o C syntax
  o Some non-object types. Helpful for performance.

Python:
  + Free. Very free.
  - Reference counting collector.
  o Simple syntax. Easy to learn but limits sophisticated stuff.
  + 8 bit strings by default
  - VM is bytecode only, relatively slow
  + Many libraries available but not part of core. Just get what you need.
  - Object attributes live in hashes. Very dynamic but very slow.
  o Everything is an object. Helpful for development.

Both languages are still evolving rapidly and both are pretty nice. I would
never say either is better in general. It depends on what you want to do.
Either language would make a good choice for a learning language as neither
demands you learn bad habits to get work done.

And no one says you have to learn just one language.

I would say if you are sitting at the end of a slow pipe, you should
download python. You could be waiting for hours before you get Java
downloaded. As a professional, the choice of language is often made before I
get hired so I have to be flexible and rather agnostic.