On 0, Jason Lim <maillist@jasonlim.com> wrote: [snip] > > Not a farce. Have you ever listened to a really heated debate in any > > Western legislative body? > > > > Heated, is a mild term. Such forums are always nasty, heated, and > > difficult. You are making a cultural mistake. > > > Well, Thank God the chinese CCCP (China) party meetings aren't like that. > Can you imagine 1000's of leaders of each province getting into an "heated > discussion" like that? > > And besides... having those western legistative ppl... in Australia, USA, > etc. acting like children, in front of everyone... is that really > something to be proud of? My apologies for discussing politics this list, but this sort of random, brain-dead insult is not on. Have a think about what you are saying. The difference between the Chinese way and the Western way is that in the West we have a heated debate, and in China you take the minorities out the back and kill them where people can't see them. Up to your personal taste, of course, but I know which sort of democracy I like. This is not a random, brain-dead insult; the abuse of human rights by China is a fairly well-documented fact. Also, the only places I am aware of that political discussions have ended in violence[1] are Turkey and Taiwan, and they are hardly shining examples of Western-style democracies (although Taiwan is on the way). [1] That is violence _in the parliament_. Obviously public violence following a debate is far more widespread. [snip] > Again... it's painfully obvious many of you do not communicate with Asia > at all. > > Perhaps one day when communications with Asia becomes critical and > crucial... like now that China's entry into the WTO... makes a > difference..... Perhaps one day Asia will work out that their communications with the West aren't getting through and clean up their act in regard to spammers. No matter where the spam originates, it is coming through Asia, and it is the Asian sysadmins who need to do something about it. Personally my own SMTP server was added to a blacklist as an open relay a couple of weeks ago, and I fixed it ASAP. For some reason sysadmins in HK and (esp) Korea don't seem to think that way. You are asking for the privilege of open communication without accepting the responsibility of good use of it. I don't care where the spam comes from, it is the responsibility of sysadmins to deny services to spammers. The spammers themselves should be brought to justice, but at the same time it is the responsibility of someone who owns infrastructure to use it well. I began reading this thread in sympathy with you, for the injustice of black-listing a large block in response to the misbehaviour of a few. As I read it, though, I am more conviced by John's argument (paraphrased) that communicating with people from an ISP that harbours spammers is condoning the spamming. Your own rather arrogant demands have not helped, and I daresay have lost you some other friends in this argument as well. You have demanded that people change their mail configurations to suit you; that is a matter up to them. The way to get your mail through is to get your ISP to clean up their act. You seem to have a real chip on *your* shoulder regarding the maintainer of the list. As for your political attacks on the West, you should be embarressed by their simplicity and naievity. See my comments above about parliaments. And for someone who thinks that China is the wonder of the world now that they have made it into the WTO you show an absolute ignorance of the entire notion of a free market. The free market is based on maximum efficiency derived from individuals selecting products as they want. If Asian MTAs are really not a problem in spam then they would not be blacklisted. If Asian MTAs were not a problem in spam then people wouldn't be attracted to lists like Osirusoft in the first place. However Osirusoft seems to be providing a valuable service because people are using it. If Asians want the privilege of communicating with the rest of the world then they need to accept the responsibility of keeping their ISPs honest and behaved. You are instead advocating a model where your rights are more important than those of other people, and therefore where you control the market, not the selections of everyone. [snip] > > But none of the HK ISP's will even respond to spam complaints, and they > > will not terminate the accounts/access of spammers. > > > Please do not say none. Some do. But in the case of Osirusoft, it doesn't > matter... everyones block, not just the ones that don't act. Everyone's > been painted with the black brush. There are several possible 'black brush' mistakes, including where you *meant* to get almost everyone. It seems that the vast majority of ISPs don't respond. Tom -- Tom Cook Information Technology Services, The University of Adelaide When you go to the sysadmin's office in the afternoon, and all is deathly quiet, there are three possibilities: 1) Something has gone wrong, and they are all trying to fix it. 2) Something has gone badly wrong, and they have all left the country. 3) Something has gone very badly wrong, and you're missing happy hour. Get my GPG public key: https://pinky.its.adelaide.edu.au/~tkcook/tom.cook-at-adelaide.edu.au
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