Re: inappropriate racist and other offensive material
On Fri, 15 Mar 2002, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> Yes. Upstream seems to have admitted that this particular
> case was an oversight.
>
> Jaldhar> So the censorship has already occurred.
>
> Look at the definition of the word.
Censorship is suppression of an idea based on its' content. I didn't
quote that from a dictionary but would you agree that's a reasonable
definition?
> Since the author (and the
> maintainer have retracted the message, your use of the word censor
> is, umm, mostly inflammatory.
>
Inflammatory or not, there was an offensive text, now there isn't. And
the reason there isn't is because it was deemed offensive. Censorship.
And why should it be inflammatory? That kind of censorship goes on all
the time. Why, just today I censored two invitations to acquire credit
cards and a menu from a Chinese restaurant. While I'm sure someone at
Shanghai Gardens is very upset about this I doubt the ACLU is rushing to
take the case.
>
> Jaldhar> If Manoj is serious about "fighting tooth and nail" (and not
> Jaldhar> just trying to score debating points as I suspect,) he has
> Jaldhar> the same choice convince the maintainer, fork the package or
> Jaldhar> shut up.
>
> Thank you. I did not think I needed instruction in how the
> project operated, but thanks.
You're welcome. I'm sure you read the first line of my message where I
said two posts were being rearranged for didactic purposes. My aim in so
doing is to illustrate to debian-users how the project operates. While I
am heartened to learn a Policy Manual editor and distinguished package
maintainer needs no such instruction, will he indulge those who are not so
fortunate?
> Indeed, if you read the context I was speaking in, I was
> defending the right of people to voice their opinions in this
> debate.
>
Whereas what I'm saying is in practice opinions matter very little. In
Debian, the package maintainer is king of his little castle. While we
have provision in the constitution for the technical comittee etc, can
you think of the last time we have actually second-guessed a maintainer
this way? I can't. Even forcible NMUs are a very recent innovation and
there is still a lot of reluctance to do that.
> In this particular case (which really interests me little),
Which was another point. Most of the people involved in this debate (it
was wrong of me to single your name out) really don't care yet they all
act as if the wrong answer was going to result in the end of civilization
as we know it! weird.
> the situation has been resolved. My concern is the so called calls
> for policy
>
I didn't see that in your message or Vineet's but ok it's probably me.
> >> After all, I tolerate the bible, and the dhamapada. And such
> >> superstition is far more insidious than racism.
> >>
>
> Jaldhar> The really insidious thing about these debates is the vapid
> Jaldhar> philosophizing that goes on...
>
> I see. Any philosophizing that is not done ny you, or meets
> your parameters, is now bland?
>
Yup that about sums it up :) Call me old-fashioned but I feel philosophy
should at least make an effort to be intelligable and practical. Tossing
around big ideas about racism and thought control and other rather vague
notions just leeds to these interminable blockbuster threads that continue
until everyone is too dizzy or exhausted to continue. (And again let me
not give the impression I think it's just you. There's plenty of it going
around on both sides.)
> Jaldhar> My view is very simple. There are no facts in such cases
> Jaldhar> just subjective opinions so the subjective opinion of he who
> Jaldhar> does the work is the only one that counts.
>
> I suppose this is far less trite and banal than all the other
> people philosophizing on the subject, despite the putative
> simplicity. One bows to the master.
My view (in retrospect, a bad choice of words) at least has the merit of
reflecting how Debian actually works.
--
Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar@debian.org>
It's a girl! See the pictures - http://www.braincells.com/shailaja/
Reply to: