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Re: Mixing Debian releases the easy way - HowTo - questions



Donald - Thanks!  :)    I hope you don't mind me forwarding this to Chris and
the list.  (If I have correctly interpreted your disposition, I suspect you
don't mind.)  He did some interesting tests that IIRC he just sent to
everyone, so IIRC you got a copy from him too.  I thought he might find your
comments informative.

See also other comments & questions below.  (I'd suggest you send your
answers to the list, so everyone can benefit from them.  :)  )

Chris - I thought you might find some of this info useful.

--- "Donald R. Spoon" <dspoon@satx.rr.com> wrote:
> tluxt wrote:
....
> ==========================================================================
> > 
> > Re: How pull packages from unstable to a Woody system?
> > From: "Donald R. Spoon" <dspoon@satx.rr.com>
> > 
> > The subject of "pinning" has been discussed several times late last year
...
> OOPS!  This next paragraph should have been #7.
> 
> > 6.  If you want to install a SPECIFIC package from "unstable" just run
> >   "apt-get -t unstable install <package name>".  In the case of
> > installing kghostview from unstable the command would be "apt-get -t
> > unstable install kghostview".
> > 
> > There are other methods and other recommended "Pin-Priority" numbers
> > discussed in the previously mentioned messages.  You might want to
> > review them to see all your options.   All I can say is this particular
> > method has worked quite well for me during the last 2-3 months.
> > 
> > Donald:  Does this do the "apt-get upgrade" properly?
> >
> ==========================================================================
> 
> Yes.  It will "upgrade" and EXISING package on your system plus any 
> dependencies.  IT WILL NOT INSTALL A PACKAGE THAT ISN'T ALREADY 
> INSTALLED!  There is one 'caveat"...see the NOTE below.

Hmm.  So, that looks problematic, if (as I guess I am) this howto is being
written for someone not highly familiar with using the apt tools.

What do you suggest be done for that case (or is that just a hopeless case,
might as well not bother to write a howto for such a person)?


> NOTE:  I have occasionally had some problems with a few KDE packages 
> that have made it into "testing" but still depended on some external 
> packages remaining in "unstable".  These would not install untill I 
> installed the required dependencies from "unstable".  

What is the kind of error message you got that let you know there was such a
problem?  Then, how did you solve it?

> The current 
> pinning system will treat the "source" of a package being upgraded as 
> the "source" for meeting any dependencies.  As long as you keep your KDE 
> stuff current from "unstable" then you should be OK on this account.  I 
> have noticed some "drift" over time in this regard, and you have to keep 
> on top of it.

In this context, please define what you mean by 'drift'.
How does one 'keep on top of it'?

> 
> IMHO, there is "no way" you will ever get to where you want to be for 
> the following reasons:

What do you mean by 'where you want to be'?
If you are right, then what would you suggest is the plan of action that
should be followed?

> 
> 1.  "Woody" (testing) is undergoing CONSTANT changes!  I recently did an 
> "apt-get dist-upgrade" from Potato to Woody and it installed about 200+ 
> new packages.  When I do my almost daily "apt-get upgrade" on my system, 
> I have noticed anywhere from 20 to 60 "new" packages being installed. 
> That is almost EVERY DAY (most certainly EVERY WEEK), and is a 
> SIGNIFICANT portion of the ENTIRE INSTALL!!  There is still a LOT of 
> "tweaking" going on.  This includes the "apt-get" program!  The bottom 
> line is anything you put into your "HOWTO" will be outdated quite soon. 
> This situation will NOT change due to the basic philosophy of Debian 
> development.  Woody, despite having a name, IS NOT THE "OFFICIAL" 
> RELEASE yet, and will have rough edges.
> 
>    2.  A good understanding of just how the APT series of packages work 
> and how the relate to dpkg and dselect will solve most install problems. 
>   It does some things very well, but it certainly DOESN'T cover every 
> possibility that comes up.  If you limit your "HOWTO" to just apt-get 
> procedures, then you are doing the equivalent of tying one arm behind 
> your back. I frequently find myself going into dselect to get some info 
> on what has caused a "hang" or other problem with an install.  Over the 
> years, I have gathered a "bag of tricks" to try when a package doesn't 
> want to install properly.  Each program has its strong points and MUST 
> be viewed as a "suite" of tools, rather than as a "replacement" or 
> alternative.  IMHO, a "HOWTO" on APT and how to use it would be a much 
> more useful project.  If you understand APT, DPKG, DSELECT, then you 
> have to tools to install almost any combination of packages from various 
> Debian trees you choose!
 
I recently found this excellentd ocument, which you might like to view.  :)
APT HOWTO
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/index.en.html

> 3.  Have you defined your "target" audience?  I cannot figure this out. 
>   Also, are you prepared to "maintain" the HOWTO.  This could be a 
> tremendoug job in view of the constantly changing nature of Woody.  I 
> tried to write up one on doing "Dial on Demand" for PPP connections in 
> Corel Linux a couple of years ago.  It was obsolete almost before I 
> could get it out the door!  Once I described "A WAY TO DO IT", I got a 
> lot of "BETTER WAYS" suggested (causing more changes), and there was 
> always that 10% that couldn't make it work at all!  I used to work with 
> this latter group individually, but it was QUITE frustrating!!  The 
> tail-end of this project will "eat you alive".  Once you publish it, YOU 
> become the "EXPERT" <grin>.
> 
> I admire your vision and energy.  Don't let me throw too much "cold 
> water" on it.  It is a worth-while project, just something I wouldn't 
> want to try! <grin>
> 
> Cheers & Good Luck,
> -Don Spoon-
> 

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