Re: Mixing Debian releases the easy way - HowTo - questions
Donald - Thanks! :) I hope you don't mind me forwarding this to Chris and
the list. (If I have correctly interpreted your disposition, I suspect you
don't mind.) He did some interesting tests that IIRC he just sent to
everyone, so IIRC you got a copy from him too. I thought he might find your
comments informative.
See also other comments & questions below. (I'd suggest you send your
answers to the list, so everyone can benefit from them. :) )
Chris - I thought you might find some of this info useful.
--- "Donald R. Spoon" <dspoon@satx.rr.com> wrote:
> tluxt wrote:
....
> ==========================================================================
> >
> > Re: How pull packages from unstable to a Woody system?
> > From: "Donald R. Spoon" <dspoon@satx.rr.com>
> >
> > The subject of "pinning" has been discussed several times late last year
...
> OOPS! This next paragraph should have been #7.
>
> > 6. If you want to install a SPECIFIC package from "unstable" just run
> > "apt-get -t unstable install <package name>". In the case of
> > installing kghostview from unstable the command would be "apt-get -t
> > unstable install kghostview".
> >
> > There are other methods and other recommended "Pin-Priority" numbers
> > discussed in the previously mentioned messages. You might want to
> > review them to see all your options. All I can say is this particular
> > method has worked quite well for me during the last 2-3 months.
> >
> > Donald: Does this do the "apt-get upgrade" properly?
> >
> ==========================================================================
>
> Yes. It will "upgrade" and EXISING package on your system plus any
> dependencies. IT WILL NOT INSTALL A PACKAGE THAT ISN'T ALREADY
> INSTALLED! There is one 'caveat"...see the NOTE below.
Hmm. So, that looks problematic, if (as I guess I am) this howto is being
written for someone not highly familiar with using the apt tools.
What do you suggest be done for that case (or is that just a hopeless case,
might as well not bother to write a howto for such a person)?
> NOTE: I have occasionally had some problems with a few KDE packages
> that have made it into "testing" but still depended on some external
> packages remaining in "unstable". These would not install untill I
> installed the required dependencies from "unstable".
What is the kind of error message you got that let you know there was such a
problem? Then, how did you solve it?
> The current
> pinning system will treat the "source" of a package being upgraded as
> the "source" for meeting any dependencies. As long as you keep your KDE
> stuff current from "unstable" then you should be OK on this account. I
> have noticed some "drift" over time in this regard, and you have to keep
> on top of it.
In this context, please define what you mean by 'drift'.
How does one 'keep on top of it'?
>
> IMHO, there is "no way" you will ever get to where you want to be for
> the following reasons:
What do you mean by 'where you want to be'?
If you are right, then what would you suggest is the plan of action that
should be followed?
>
> 1. "Woody" (testing) is undergoing CONSTANT changes! I recently did an
> "apt-get dist-upgrade" from Potato to Woody and it installed about 200+
> new packages. When I do my almost daily "apt-get upgrade" on my system,
> I have noticed anywhere from 20 to 60 "new" packages being installed.
> That is almost EVERY DAY (most certainly EVERY WEEK), and is a
> SIGNIFICANT portion of the ENTIRE INSTALL!! There is still a LOT of
> "tweaking" going on. This includes the "apt-get" program! The bottom
> line is anything you put into your "HOWTO" will be outdated quite soon.
> This situation will NOT change due to the basic philosophy of Debian
> development. Woody, despite having a name, IS NOT THE "OFFICIAL"
> RELEASE yet, and will have rough edges.
>
> 2. A good understanding of just how the APT series of packages work
> and how the relate to dpkg and dselect will solve most install problems.
> It does some things very well, but it certainly DOESN'T cover every
> possibility that comes up. If you limit your "HOWTO" to just apt-get
> procedures, then you are doing the equivalent of tying one arm behind
> your back. I frequently find myself going into dselect to get some info
> on what has caused a "hang" or other problem with an install. Over the
> years, I have gathered a "bag of tricks" to try when a package doesn't
> want to install properly. Each program has its strong points and MUST
> be viewed as a "suite" of tools, rather than as a "replacement" or
> alternative. IMHO, a "HOWTO" on APT and how to use it would be a much
> more useful project. If you understand APT, DPKG, DSELECT, then you
> have to tools to install almost any combination of packages from various
> Debian trees you choose!
I recently found this excellentd ocument, which you might like to view. :)
APT HOWTO
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/index.en.html
> 3. Have you defined your "target" audience? I cannot figure this out.
> Also, are you prepared to "maintain" the HOWTO. This could be a
> tremendoug job in view of the constantly changing nature of Woody. I
> tried to write up one on doing "Dial on Demand" for PPP connections in
> Corel Linux a couple of years ago. It was obsolete almost before I
> could get it out the door! Once I described "A WAY TO DO IT", I got a
> lot of "BETTER WAYS" suggested (causing more changes), and there was
> always that 10% that couldn't make it work at all! I used to work with
> this latter group individually, but it was QUITE frustrating!! The
> tail-end of this project will "eat you alive". Once you publish it, YOU
> become the "EXPERT" <grin>.
>
> I admire your vision and energy. Don't let me throw too much "cold
> water" on it. It is a worth-while project, just something I wouldn't
> want to try! <grin>
>
> Cheers & Good Luck,
> -Don Spoon-
>
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