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Re: changing to Debian from Mandrake



on Tue, Oct 30, 2001 at 01:50:08PM -0500, Michael Kaminsky (kaminsky@lcs.mit.edu) wrote:

> I'm been using Mandrake for the past couple of years, and now I'm
> considering switching to Debian; but, I have some concerns.  I
> consider myself a fairly experienced Linux user and use Linux for all
> my computing needs (devel, digital camera stuff, laptop stuff ,text
> processing, networking, etc.).  I would like input on the following:
> 
>  * One reason I moved to Mandrake from Redhat (from Slackware) is that
>    the packages are extremely up-to-date.  Even the unstable version of
>    Debian seems sorely lacking.  Mandrake seems to put out RPMs within
>    1-2 days of the upstream developers.  There are still no Debian
>    packages for software I use regularly that's been out for > 1 month
>    (according to the debian web page package search form).  
>    Example: gnucash.
> 
>    Also, in some cases the package I want is up-to-date, but not
>    all of its dependencies.  Example: gnumeric.  Version 0.72 requires 
>    a version of guppi for which there is no Debian package.

My experience is that Debian unstable tends to be pretty up-to-date
(notable exception in my experience:  Mozilla, Q1-Q2 2001, which was
hanging around 18-n ferfukinevah, but it got over that).  The usual
problem is confounded dependencies or package organization upstream.

The benefit:  you're getting a good balance of _current_ and
_functional_.

If you're interested in closely tracking recent builds of a package,
MVAO is that Debian gives you the edge by babysitting the rest of the
system while you wrestle with bleeding edge programs and support.
Install same under /usr/local or use alien to convert RPMs.  You're
going to have to resolve deps on your own though.

> *  Apt + dselect seem very powerful, efficient if you use them
>    together correctly.  From the mailing lists, though, "correctly"
>    seems to be a matter of confusion (or perhaps just preference).

Generally, there are two classes of package management tools:  those
that handle single packages, and those that handle groups.  dselect,
capt, and aptitude are full-screen interfaces in which multiple packages
may be selected, queried, and installed interactively.  dpkg and apt-get
are command-line interfaces better suited for installing single packages
or small sets, once you know what you're looking for, _or_, in the case
of apt-get, doing a full update of your system.

My experience is that you use dselect when you're doing an initial
install, then do one-off package installs with apt-get as needed, and
system upgrades with apt-get on a regular basis.  I rarely go back to
the full-screen frontends.

>    Also, there doesn't seem to be an easy way to upgrade to testing or 
>    unstable once you install.  

Change your /etc/apt/sources.list source pointers.

> *  Mandrake has very decent system configuration tools.  

So does Debian:  vim, emacs, nano,....

>    I spent many years editing scripts and config files to setup up
>    Linux machines, 

Debian uses the Extra Straightforward Readable® config script format and
layout.  My other GNU/Linux experience is largely RH, and its config
scripts are a sorry mess.  Even frontends such as LinuxConf don't manage
to find and update all scripts reliabily.

>    but it just takes longer when it comes to simple,
>    basic tasks (adding a network interface, 

    $EDITOR /etc/network/interfaces

>    changing the runlevel

    /usr/sbin/update-rc.d 

>    configuration for daemons, etc.).  Does Debian provide such tools
>    (even if clearly they don't work for all situations)?

Generally, yes, either through command line tools or (previously
mentioned) far saner config files.

Peace.

-- 
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