Re: water, water everywhere, but not a drop to drink.
hey guys.
I just wanted to say that as a relative newbie to linux (about 2
months), everything which kevin said struck a chord in me.
In my opinion, he stated his take on the situation, tried to address the
problem without insulting anyone. I really don't see how someone could
complain about a situation any more profesionaly than that.
My only point of concern is that some of you have responded rather
harshly to what was a valid complaint made in earnest and without
slander.
Granted, the unfortunate answer to his complaint is "just keep on
chuggin and you'll get there eventually.".
However, you can choose to relay that info in a consoling, encouraging
"dont give up" kind of way, or you can choose to basically say "quit yer
bitchin".
It dissapoints me to individuals in the linux communtiy, who by their
very nature are probably very intelligent people, give this newbie flak
for addressing in a professional way what countless others are thinking.
Kevin, dont give up. Linux is the "right thing to do". The road is
hard and long, but worth it.
jason
jason@pepas.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Stokes" <linux@pieskysoft.com>
To: "Debian User List" <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 10:37 PM
Subject: water, water everywhere, but not a drop to drink.
> Once again I find myself helpless. As unreliable and as
frustrating as
> Windows is, in Linux it seems like you can't do anything without
asking for
> help.
>
> I wanted to remotely login from a Windows machine to my linux
machine. So
> I wanted to install telnetd. Everyone said, 'shame on you, telnet is
> simply awful. You should be chained to the wall and whipped for
wanting to
> use telnet! Use 'ssh' instead.'
>
> Well, ssh got installed along with everything when I installed
linux. So
> I read the man pages for ssh. As is typical of the linux world, it
is
> about 15 pages of utter gobbedly-gook. To be fair, man pages are not
meant
> for newbies to learn linux from scratch.
>
> So I search until I find a HOWTO on ssh. This would be nice if it
worked,
> but of course it doesn't. Everything seems to be different. Their
> suggestions fail. The paths are different.
>
> http://www.linuxdoc.org/LDP/LG/issue61/dellomodarme.html
>
> Now I can explain the title of my post. Linux is amazing. There is
> source code, and binaries and gigabytes of documentation about
everything
> under the sun. All free! But it all seems nearly useless. Take a
> newbie, and drop him into the sea of freebies.
>
> And he drowns. You start searching archives and HOWTO's. Each thing
you
> find leads you in 10 different directions; 10 more places to look for
> answers. Only each of those ten leads simply bring up 10 more
questions and
> strange things you never heard of. It seems like there is a
infinite sea
> of little config files, and nested /etc directories, and devices and
weird
> little two-letter commands. And for each of these, there are man
pages
> with 20 options, and completely obscure text which makes no sense
unless you
> already know everything.
>
> Take the last time I needed help. A generous and helpful person
told me
> to do the following:
>
> update-rc.d -n -f xdm remove
>
> Why the hell didn't I think of doing that? What does that command
do? I
> don't know. It worked just like the helpful guy said it would. But
I have
> no clue what it did, and what those 8 files that it deleted or
modified
> were.
>
> In my opinion, Linux is a truly great and remarkable thing. And I
get the
> impression than many Linux enthusiasts want Linux to become the
dominant OS.
> However, I think that no matter how great the software is, the #1
problem is
> that Linux is a nightmare for anybody who doesn't know it already.
This is
> not true of Windows, or even DOS. Linux is chasing away the very
people it
> needs.
>
> You can tell this from the tone of most newbie posts. They are
> embarrassed to have to ask these questions. They (read me) have a
tough
> time asking a question which uses terminology correctly, or even
coming up a
> question that makes sense.
>
> There is something that Linux needs much more than anything else,
and that
> is a decent help system. We need something about 50 times larger
than the
> man pages. Something which always has an extensive chapter in simple
> layman language, and lots of examples with clear steps with
*explanations*.
> And also a way to get to the more typically man page type stuff for
the
> people who need that.
>
> Who is willing to create such a thing? Not me, I'm not a Linux
devotee.
> But people have put so much effort into building the OS itself, and
writing
> doc. But the bottom line is that the Windows Help system totally
blows
> away all the confusing HOWTO's, man pages, or archived email searches.
> I'm sure the Linux community could come up with something which beats
the
> Windows Help by a long shot, if they ever decide to get serious about
making
> progress.
>
> For those who read this list and have put in 100's of hours working
on
> Linux for free for whatever reason: How many people do you suppose
have
> installed Redhat, Debian or Suse, and tried for a week or so, and then
> deleted it in frustration? Did they remove it because they are
> weak-minded, or were they programmed by Bill Gates to hate the
penguin?
> No, it was because they couldn't figure out anything without being
bombarded
> with 100 other things they didn't know
>
> Anyway, I detest Windows because it crashes every day. I detest
Windows
> because there is no useful support. (If you call them they charge $40
and
> their solution is to reinstall Windows) I detest Windows because
they have
> such a freaking attitude that when their OS crashes, they give you
message
> that you need to contect 'The Vendor', as if a crash could never be
their
> fault. I detest Windows because to install anything you have to
reboot 100
> times, and sometimes it becames so messed up you have reinstall the
whole
> OS. I detest Windows because they make you buy a new version every
two
> years and it is never any better. In summation, I detest Windows
because I
> have to use it, and it is low quality software.
>
> So I have all these reasons to detest Windows. What keeps me and
> zillions of others like me from jumping into Linux? Because we
quickly
> drown.
>
> Anyway... Does anybody know what steps I need to do in order make
ssh
> work so I can log in remotely? I wanted to try to use Tera Term Pro
with
> the SSH extenstion to log onto my Linux machine from a Windows machine
on
> the local network.
>
> Right now if I type:
>
> ssh -v -l root rocky
>
> I get this error message about authenticity not being established.
I
> made a 'indentification' and an authorization file in the ~/.ssh
directory
> along with the keys created by ssh-keygen, but I really don't know
what I'm
> doing. I just tried to do what it said in the HOWTO link above, and
nothing
> seems to work.
>
> -Kevin Stokes
> frustrated Linux Newbie.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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