Re: what i've learned, and explanation.

[will trillich <will@serensoft.com>]

On Thu, Apr 12, 2001 at 01:16:50PM -0700, tom@tomd.org wrote:
> Ok, ok, I give up.  For what's it's worth, here's what I have learned from
> the day's events:

> 2) In fact, don't respond to mail at all if you're going to be expressing
>    your opinion, unless you've got some homies on the Debian list who will
>    "back" you.  People know Karsten, and they don't know me, so he wins by
>    default.

Actually, he wins by reputation. much of his mail here -- from
what i've scanned across -- is in answering, suggesting,
directing, pointing, helping. When i see him actually ASK a
question i scramble like the dickens to see if i can find the
answer. (I think i managed, once. Hopefully if he reads this
he'll be all the more eager to save my butt from the sling, next
time... :)

Folks like Karsten have a crip of homeys here BECAUSE they help,
or try to. Some help with an attitude, some do it with humor,
some do it in the afternoon. Those who help others gain homey
points. (Okay, everyone whose buns were kept from the fire by
pointers from Karsten and other such elitists, raise a cheek...)

Expect two to four months of "aaugh! Ever since the lobotomy i
can't figure anything out" before you can start helping others
here. (Your spouse will hate it nearly as much as you do.) Once
you get past the "i feel lobotomized" stage, you can answer
others' questions, and then you'll start getting misguided
comments like

	...what a great explanation...
	...you're a powerful wizard...
	...wow, i never knew that...

from people who don't know any better. :)

> 4) Don't make any requests unless you can help to carry them out yourself.
>    (By that logic, I can't report bugs in Apache, since I can't fix them,
>    and I shouldn't request documentation unless I have the time to write it).

Needs some fine-tuning... how about: "DON'T make any DEMANDS,
EXPECTING to be entitled to someone else's time or attention; and
unless you're WILLING TO RECIPROCATE, don't even expect others to
volunteer theirs to help you."

After all, why should they?

> 5) It's ok to make disparaging remarks about people if they're clueless
>    Windows users (who come from a totally different paradigm than Linux
>    users), but it's not ok to make disparaging remarks at those who get
>    after these "clueless users".

Correction: it's only okay to make disparaging remarks about
windo~1 and the effects it has on people. :)

> 6) Appearing to be a bit of an elitist and bashing clueless Windows users
>    are good ways to gain popularity in the community.

Actually, they're only good ways to entertain other elitists. The
way to gain points in this community is by helping the moronic,
halitosis-ridden, clueless dredges of the windo~1 community
become productive members of society.

> We were all newbies ourselves once.  Personally I've been using Linux for
> a couple years, and I've done a hell of a lot of research on my own to
> get things working properly.  I didn't have anyone to help me.  I also came
> from a Windows background, and I recognize the vast differences in the
> Windows and Linux communities.  Because I remember what it was like to be a
> newbie, I want to help others who still don't quite know what Linux is all

Please do! http://newbieDoc.sourceForge.net/

> about.  Telling people that you're adding them to a killfile because you don't
> like their sense of community != a good way to get new community members.
> Maybe you don't really care if more people start using Debian, but I do,
> because of what a great experience it has been for me.

We s/We/I/ don't add folks to the killfile because of a
difference in 'sense of community'. I only add folks to my
killfile if they're not elite enough.

When i started with Debian i sent a few "what the hell am i
supposed to do now" flares to debian-user, and apparently i
didn't do it quite right, because most of them still respond to
me. :) After a few gentle spanks from some, others with more
patience guided me in the right direction and i'm feeling much
better now.

Seriously, this rant-and-rave fest was from a guy who wanted
better documentation. I agree, we do need better documentation.

So i've joined at http://newbiedoc.sourceforge.net/ and i'm
working on learning a whole new spaghetti bowl of sgml just so
someone else, tomorrow, maybe, might not have some of the
troubles i did.  (Are you elite with sgml? I have some
questions...)

Compare that with "you folks need to apportion your time better;
not so much new software, but better docs on the software we've
got! Chop chop, let's get busy." THAT's when we try to set him
straight (we're all volunteers here, you can be too) and he said
"so sorry, i have better things to do with my time".

And THEN -- being elitist -- we PLONK him.

-- 
americans should never read anything so subversive as what's at
http://www.salon.com/people/col/pagl/2001/03/21/spring/index1.html

will@serensoft.com
http://sourceforge.net/projects/newbiedoc -- we need your brain!
http://www.dontUthink.com/ -- your brain needs us!