Re: Woody Progress

[Richard Taylor <soluzar75@lineone.net>]

On Sun, Dec 03, 2000 at 11:31:30AM -0700, Rando Christensen wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Dec 2000, Richard Taylor wrote:
> 
> > ObDisclaimer: IANADD
> > 
> > First off, I would like to apologize if this is not the right list to ask 
> > this question, and secondly, I would like to apologize if it is not 
> > appropriate for a non-developer to ask this question.
> > I have been impressed with the progress of woody recently, to the point where 
> > I now keep it installed myself, for the fun of experimenting with XF86 4, and 
> > what I would like to know is: Does anyone have any theories as to when the 
> > code freeze will start. I mean, getting a new realease out, with KDE 2 
> > packaged and ready to go, plus XF86 4, would do a lot to restore the Debian
> > Project in the eyes of joe-average linux-user.
> 
> The problem with this line of thinking, i think, is that debian isn't
> aimed toward 'joe-average linux-user' .. It's aimed really towards the
> debian developers, and others like them. Debian isn't trying to "restore"
> themselves, in anyone's eyes. they are going forward as they feel correct.
>
Ok, if Debian is not aimed at Joe, then why do we bother having a mailing list 
where we discuss publicity for the system. I mean, isn't what you are saying, 
that we should just stick with the users that we have got? If you are, then 
I, for one, cannot agree with you.  
 
> The big difference between debian and alll those other distro's (possibly 
> slack excluded), is that the debian project will go forward when nobody
> gets a paycheck. Debian is (probably) the biggest volunteer software
> project in the world. Most linux distributions are in it for the
> money....
> 
> Just my thoughts.
>  
> > *gets into asbestos suit*
> > Before you all jump on me, the Debian linux distro has somewhat of a 
> > reputation for being behind the times, due to it's long and rigorous 
> > testing process. Personally, I prefer this, and the extended testing period 
> > is one 
> 
> I prefer it, too. in fact, I wouldn't give it up. 
>
Clarification: I don't prefer the fact that in some cases we trail two or three 
minor revisions from the upstream source. I am for testing just as much as anyone 
else... but I do think that rublic relations should be a concern too, as should 
staying on the cutting edge.  

> > of many reasons Debian is the only linux I use.
> > Also, those of us who read the lists understand what the reasons are, and 
> > to my mind, they were sound, but up until recently, the `man on the street' 
> > still sees us as the last distro to not have KDE.
> 
> And it's a true statement. But, IMHO, Kde is crap anyway. ;)
>
But as I keep trying to explain, the views of you and others like you matter -
they matter a lot, but so do the views of Joe Average... IMHO, of course.
 
> > He doesnt care about ideology, and while right has won out in the end, it 
> 
> But we DO care. What does that mean? That debian is NOT for everyone, and
> he'll be perfectly happy with another distribution.
> 
> > has set our public image back somewhat.
> > Had I the power, I would _not_ change any of the decisions that have 
> > brought Debian to where it is now, but to my mind, now would be a good 
> > time to consider when the new release will come out. 
> 
> Nah, potato just stabilized. just BARELY. We don't need to rush out with
> this. I wouldn't even expect seeing the release until at least the end of
> 2001. and that doesn't even seem likely to me.
>
I can only ask, what do you mean? I wouldn't call it just barely - I admit 
it was recent, but you know darned well that potato was stable for _months_ 
before it was officially dubbed stable. I was using it for six months before 
the release, with not one show-stopping problem. Besides, isn't that the way 
that it should work. One out, give the next one a month or two, then freeze? 
I mean a code freeze is _not_ a release, it doesn't mean we stop testing, and
it doesn't mean we stop bugfixes. I admit, I could be very wrong here, but 
another year, before Debian Woody comes out, seems a long time. Potato is 
a fine release. A FINE release. Woody just has some stuff in it that is far 
too nice to make users wait a year for. :-)   
 
> The thing is, debian is NOT going to throw together a distribution release
> and just call it stable. RedHat would. They consider rh7.0 to be a nice,
> stable release. Any debian user/developer would SCOFF at that.
>
One hundred percent true, RH7 is a cow. I find it hard to believe they are 
using a _known to be unstable_ GCC. This would never happen in Debian. 
I can't disagree with you there.
OTOH, I wouldn't call Woody oh-so terribly unstable - not from my personal 
experience of it, which has been minimal, but you hear developers reccomending 
it on the debian-user list, if it is needed to solve a specific problem, so 
my reasoning is that it must be there-or-there-about. When I wrote my first 
message, I didn't expect to hear `Next week, mate!, but I didn't expect to 
hear a full year, either. Shame, really. Of course, I'll still keep on using 
Debian, and reccomending it to all my friends.

In closing, I'd like to ask another (related) question. Is there some 
particular piece of software that you think Woody is waiting for that will 
be here in a years time? GCC 3.0 perhaps? 

Richard Taylor 
> > 
> > Thank you for your time.
> > 
> > Richard Taylor 
> > 
> > 
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