Re: A Cry For Help
Dear Bert,
I'm another relative newbie, and I've cut my teeth the hard way, with not
dos or anything to fall back on, and a Vet degree to worry about.
I'll see what I can do for you, since people have been really helpful to
me ;)
> Background: For the past few months I've been reading on all fronts
> about the superiority of Linux over the incoming Windows '98 and the
> Windows NT systems. Having used MSDOS and the windows systems for
> quite a few years; and not being overly impressed with making Bill
> Gates a trillionare, I decided to start out with the Basic Debian
> system.
A good start :)
> Experience: I have been around computers for a few years, and I
> have some experience on various pcs and with IBM and Burroughs main
> frames. Therefore, I thought that I had enough background to try
> Debian Linux.
You've more computer experience than I probably...
> History: The download from Sunsite went well, and I got the
> required files. Made diskettes from these files, installed them
> on a seperate hard disk, and brought up Debian Linux. For someone
> with no Linux experience, it was tedious, but not impossible.
What was tedious about it - I know it takes some time, but did something
not work, or did something seem to take for ever? What machine are you
using (cpu and memory)?
> Now that I have the basic Debian installed what do I do?
Depends what basic Debian means exactly. If you've just got the base
system (i.e. Dselect not run), or if you've run Dselect, but just taken
the required packages, then you need to chose some packages!
(see below for recommendations)...
> Having seen and read about "How To's" at various linux sites; well,
> I figured this is the place to get basic information, and structure
> to start off on Debian. After a couple weeks on checking various
> sites (first off Debian's); I found Guido Gonzato's excellent,
> Configuration - How To. At last, I can get started on configuring
> and learning to use Debian Linux!
URL, please? It might help me!
> Now frustration sets in. Guido's document does not refer to the
> Debian system's structure. I am at a lost to relate to where to
> find the files on my Debian system. I try seaching directories
> for help, again leading to more frustration. Debian is not user
> friendly, it is "novice frutrating", is there a special reason for
> this?
Right. debian's file sytem works like this - everything is a subdirectory
of root (/).
/bin contains the really basic stuff - compression,decompression,mounting,
chown etc.
/boot contains what it says on the tin - the booting stuff
/dev contains the stuff for drives,mice,cds etc.
/etc contains some of the demons, config files
/home contains the users directories (except root)
/lib contains the libraries (used by programs) and modules
/sbin contains system utilities, generally only used by root
/usr/bin contains the binaries for most of your packages
/usr/X11R6/bin contains the binaries for X programs
> The "plain vanilla Debian Linux" offers nothing for the "novice"
> linux user. Would it have been too much to expect:
It does to an extend. Most packages have manual pages; type
man package_name
Though these may well be long and technical, they generally are good on
how to configure packages.
Certain packages have information files; type
info package_name
These are generally how to use the package
HOWTOs are in
/usr/doc/HOWTO
FAQs are in
/usr/doc/FAQ
READMEs are in
/usr/lib/package-name/README
or
/usr/doc/package-name/README
> If I am a novice who is just being oriented, dselect at this time
> is a bit too much. What do I know about the requirements for package
> installation. Even if I did download a package, how could I be sure
> if I should have selected MSDOS or i386 items? After all I am
> coming from a MSDOS sytem. That I should download packages.gz or
> contents.gz. Please help me to walk (configure the system I just
> installed), before you start " clocking " me for a 3:50 mile
> (updating a system I can even configure, or access its reference
> material).
You want i386. Heres one way of dselecting
root@pick:/$dselect
select 0: Access (arrow keys then return)
nfs
193.63.255.4
/public/pub/unix/Linux/debian
none
/hamm/hamm/binary-i386
/hamm/contrib/binary-i386
/hamm/non-free/binary-i386
none
(These parameters are remembered, so next time just select nfs, and hit
return to confirm your previous choices)
Then update should be highlighted. Hit return to select this
Then Select should be higlighted. Hit return to select this
You then get a help screen (space to get rid of it, but type . to read it
all)
Then the dauting bit - that list of over 15,000 packages!
Don't be daunted. It's best to have an idea of what you want in advance,
or just take the time to go through and choose.
You can probably ignore the devel and lib sections. If you want to run x,
then select xbase, and one of the xservers (as appropriate - if you have
an SVGA card, then select Xserver-SVGA)
to search for a package (it might be worth looking at the website to come
up with a list of packages you want - ignore dependancies for the time
being, dselect takes care of them), type / and then the package name (eg
xemacs i.e. don't bother with the version number, since the website refers
to the older version (if you've installed the older version, I suggest you
re-install the new one - updating will be painful))
At some point, you will hit dependancy problems. Generally, it will
automagically select essential packages, but recommended ones are
generally a good idea to. Sorry - hit + to add a package - to remove one.
When you're happy, hit return.
Then again to install. This takes time.
Then configure. This is probably unneccessary, but I do it to make sure.
Then remove. ditto
Then quit.
Voila! Packages installed.
I suggest
emacs
Xemacs
Netscape (n.b. get the source from netscapes web page as well)
teTeX (see http://pick.sel.cam.ac.uk/ for a beginners guide in a couple of
months :) )
apache if you want to webserve
trn and inews for news
pico and pine (from university of washington - need ncurses 3.0) for mail
and a simple editor... I'll get flamed for saying that, and dselect will
tell you their obsolete, but never mind ;)
GAMES!!!
fvwm2 as a virtual window manager (makes X easier to use)
anything else that catches your eye... ;)
> Why couldn't the system be distributed with the documentation and
> resources to implement LILO as the boot manager for dualbooting
> MSDOG (as guru(s) fondly refer to the Bill Gates software).
Can't help you there. No Gates on pick!
> Hey, I'm a "dummy", please treat me like one. I'm not writing
> " C " programs at Berkley, MIT or Dusseldorf; I'm a beginner,
> trying to get started. Please recognize that we're in a state
> that requires " debian linux nurturing ". We want to learn to
> use Debian, please help us, don't push us away. (Speaking for
> other novices who fail to communicate their plight).
I can do C. Just. I'm not a compsci. I'm a vet with too little time and
not much experience. Linux is _fun_ it is _powerful_; there are a lot of
choices. A lot is left up to you, and that can be daunting. Try asking
specific questions if you get stuck. I recommend "A Practical guide to
Linux" by Mark Sobell. Get it from a library.
> Yes, I've read about "O'reilly" books and all that stuff. But,
> in this world, there are no Amazons or Barnes and Nobles on
> every street corner. In Peru, Panama, Costa Rica, Nigeria we
> have a bit of a problem locating B&N and Amazon. If you give
> us enough guidance to start with, we can play "catch up" later
> on. The " first step " starts the journey.
Absolutely. That's why I wrote this reply. My systems been up for a few
weeks (and I'm going to screw tripos, but never mind :) ). I think that's
everything I can tell you generally. Feel free to ask specifics.
DON'T GIVE UP!
nill illigitimus carburundum!
Have fun!
ask if you get stuck!
Yours,
Matthew
--
Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo
Steward-elect of the Cambridge Tolkien Society
Selwyn College Computer Support
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/8841/
http://www.cam.ac.uk/CambUniv/Societies/tolkien/
http://pick.sel.cam.ac.uk/
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